Test XI for New Zealand right now

[FlowerPower]

My team with links for discussion on why...

1. Mawoyo
2. Sibanda

See Our Test Openers for my thesis...

3. Masakadza
4. Taylor
5. Taibu

see Our Top order for my thesis....

6. Waller.
7. Mutizwa

See Our middle order for my thesis....

8. Jarvis
9. Vitori
10. Price
11. Mpofu

See Our Test bowling for my reasons...

12.Meth

If Mpofu is struggling for fitness the Meth in...nothing against Querl but his turn will come.

[jimbo]

Whats the lowdown on mpofu??

[betterdays]

EC is not in his best form (does not always matter with class), but he should still perform if fit
)

Class - what class?

"Chigs ... has scored either a half century or a 40* against Oz, PK, SA, WI, SL, Eng against attacks consisting of amoung others: McGrath, Gillespe, Watson, Symonds, Gough, Harmison, Flintoff, Pollock, Ntini, Morkel, Philander, Afridi, F Edwards & Vaas!! [surprisingly in his many ODIs he's played India just the once but hit 24* at a SR of 150 and effectively won that game]. At 25 years old, this cannot be dismissed ..."

I got embroiled in this discussion because he's one of my "I like him, that's it!" players, however, as the chat progressed and I looked into it a little more I realised an on form EC is a big asset to the side. I am not overly sentimental, if he fails - tbh I'd be happy for him to just work away at FC and try to prove himself - then send him back to the FC fields for a season or two and see if he can keep the competition at bay (I don't see many people battoning down the hatches on their test spot)!!

[betterdays]

Whats the lowdown on mpofu??

maybe a chance for Meth to sneak into a spot - he certainly deserves a shot but I think w all agree that the attack will be, if fit, the same as vs BD.

[Conant]

EC is not in his best form (does not always matter with class), but he should still perform if fit
)

Class - what class?

"Chigs ... has scored either a half century or a 40* against Oz, PK, SA, WI, SL, Eng against attacks consisting of amoung others: McGrath, Gillespe, Watson, Symonds, Gough, Harmison, Flintoff, Pollock, Ntini, Morkel, Philander, Afridi, F Edwards & Vaas!! [surprisingly in his many ODIs he's played India just the once but hit 24* at a SR of 150 and effectively won that game]. At 25 years old, this cannot be dismissed ..."

I got embroiled in this discussion because he's one of my "I like him, that's it!" players, however, as the chat progressed and I looked into it a little more I realised an on form EC is a big asset to the side. I am not overly sentimental, if he fails - tbh I'd be happy for him to just work away at FC and try to prove himself - then send him back to the FC fields for a season or two and see if he can keep the competition at bay (I don't see many people battoning down the hatches on their test spot)!!

As much as I too liked him in his earlier days, I have resigned myself to the fact that we were seduced far too quickly buy some above par perfomances and a dearth of talent back in 2005; and have since been on racord as stating that this man is "quite easily the most overrated cricketer in the country", if not the planet.

In short I have tried to anlyse whatever vestiges of class they may be in that boy, and all I have seen is a poor man's version of Kieran Pollard.
I'm sorry I being so dismissive. Perhaps I'm merely frustrated

[betterdays]

As much as I too liked him in his earlier days, I have resigned myself to the fact that we were seduced far too quickly buy some above par perfomances and a dearth of talent back in 2005; and have since been on racord as stating that this man is "quite easily the most overrated cricketer in the country",Perhaps I'm merely frustrated

I think it's the reverse Conant: I think we were far too easily repulsed by some below par performances ... and the fact that there is now competition for places means we can vent our frustrations (and the frustrations exist even for me, he's been a disappointment) by calling for axing...and why not, if the likes of FM or CE can simply step in and 'possibly' perform!! I don't think he's quite lived up to the obvious ability he showed in SA (2005?) and some subsequent ODIs [not sure he's ever really recovered from injury, but I am happy with my rating of him ... I don't think he fantastic but I think he has done reasonably well internationally and has often looked the most 'likely' to perform].

[sloandog]

Just out of curiosity, how fast do you guys think Panyangara was ? Because you're all making him out to be a guy who's lost pace when in reality he was never a 90mph bowler. In every clip and every match i saw of him, not once did he bowl over 80Mph...

[hhm]

Just out of curiosity, how fast do you guys think Panyangara was ? Because you're all making him out to be a guy who's lost pace when in reality he was never a 90mph bowler. In every clip and every match i saw of him, not once did he bowl over 80Mph...

Sloandog, we've had this discussion already. I've charged you guys to stay clear of false claims and unfounded statements. It does your credit great harm if you constantly utter such incorrect facts boldly!

We all know Panyangara was one of the fastest guys we've had, just like Elton. To answer your question, I think he was at least an 86mph(138kph) bowler, because as an 18 year old in that ODI Series against Australia(a squad of the strength the likes of Jarvis&Vitori can only dream of for the rest of their lives) he was already bowling over 130kph. Ask Hayden, Clarke & Ponting!

Look, I'm well aware that he has reggressed a bit in pace, but for you to again say he has NEVER touched 80mph(128.75kph) ranks alongside the same madness you've been saying about his pace(as well as Rainsford's)! Where do you guys get this nonsense! We all watched the games, and we've seen Mpofu, Rainsford, Panyangara, Elton etc touch 136kph+ on many occasions! Not too long ago in the WC, Tinashe was bowling 84mph(135kph). If he was bowling at that pace recently when lacking match fitness and still easing into FC cricket again, while many say he's lost CONSIDERABLE pace - in that case, just how much faster was he - begs the question? Based on that, common sense Zimdoggy, dictates that it must've been SIGNIFICANT!

Bottomline is, none of our current national bowlers have pace to a level which matters in terms of competitive advantage. Watching Mpofu, Elton, Jarvis & Vitori bowling together in that Test match, the majority of ALL their balls were around 130kph! I was appalled when our youngsters returned for subsequent spells - they were getting slower and slower! To me ONLY Nicholson&Shingi can sustain speeds of 135-138kph, over multiple spells, in a test match - which is why I'm so desperate for them to step up! As you've heard me many a time, I rate that pair highly when it comes to operating as strike bowlers!

[takleg]

The last time I checked, there wasn't a speed gun at HSC or QSC, so we can't really tell who's quick and who isn't.

But, we're still allowed to come up with estimates. For me Vitori is a 137ish kph average bowler. I still remember him roughing Dave Warner with some really quick Mitch Johnson like bouncers in Aus A games. And he hits the bat hard.

KJ though looks 135ish kph and slightly slower than BV. He doesn't have a nasty bouncer and tends to bowl a lot fuller than BV.

These are just estimates. Fortunately, the Kiwis have speed guns and we're going to find out if Panyangara, Rainsford are quicker than KJ and BV.

[sloandog]

Okay, first of all Hhm, it's a forum, where we can express our views without worrying about what others think, just letting you know.

We all know Panyangara was one of the fastest guys we've had, just like Elton. To answer your question, I think he was at least an 86mph(138kph) bowler, because as an 18 year old in that ODI Series against Australia(a squad of the strength the likes of Jarvis&Vitori can only dream of for the rest of their lives) he was already bowling over 130kph. Ask Hayden, Clarke & Ponting!

Sorry mate but you're just wrong. 86Mph ? Where did you get that one from ? I watched that series against Australia when i still living in Zimbabwe, and though i was only a boy, i remember the promise Panyangara showed, but i also remember his pace, and not once did he bowl over 80Mph! Okay, like I've said in a previous post, i didnt see the Sri Lanka game in the WC, so he may well have bowled over 80Mph, but look how well he bowled Not the figures of an amazing fast bowling prodigy are they?

but for you to again say he has NEVER touched 80mph(128.75kph

But the thing is, I didn't say that did i Hhm ? I said he's never bowled over 80Mph!
You know you go on about me talking such 'false claims and unfounded statements', yet you're not too far off the bracket neither.

(as well as Rainsford's)!

Rainsford is a 125-132Kph bowler at best, even quicker than Panyangara!

Watching Mpofu, Elton, Jarvis & Vitori bowling together in that Test match, the majority of ALL their balls were around 130kph!

I find it very amusing when you say things with such certainty by putting things in capitals, as if you think it's a fact I don't know how fast they were bowling, but I know they were bowling quicker than that. Just check out Jarvis' delivery to Guptill; doesn't reflect a delivery of 80Mph now, does it, Hhm ?