Zimbabwe Vs West Indies | 2nd Test | 12-16 Feb 2023 | Bulawayo

[Kriterion_BD]

You're missing the point, which is to give more of our franchise players a taste against good/better opposition than they're used to. Obviously in the hope that a few of them learn something and the better ones learn to cope and go up a level.

Taps seemed to suggest that County tour would make revelations about the boys that aren't known yet. You're suggesting that it gives quality game time to them, which of course it does, but is a totally different statement.

[Googly]

What doesn't make any business sense is investing a lot of time and money into the u19's and then not following it up.

Firstly most are woefully under prepared for u19 because there's no age group cricket and our school stuff is shite.

But there are always a couple of guys that will benefit, but they just get cut loose after the world cups. Two years, and sometimes 4, of time and money and then they let the good ones just disappear. In the business world nobody would do that. You'd go out of business or be fired for wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars. The two guys that they really focused on and gave every opportunity to were Wes and Milton and they've had very mixed results. ZC completely believed these two would kick on and become world beaters and so far they've come up short. Obviously there's still time for them to sort their shit out, especially Wes, he's got real talent, but it just highlights their inability to do what's necessary.
We've kicked this convo to death, but you have to identify the good guys and give them the opportunity to make their way into franchise and to be able to survive financially whilst they give it a shot. Aside from the money issue they need coaching. Does it suddenly stop and do they have to rely on team net sessions to continue their progress?
Team net sessions surely are a piece of the jigsaw but what is required is continued specialised one on one coaching at some sort of High Performance Centre. ZC don't have the facility nor do they have the coaches.
They have franchise coaches that potentially have some spare time, that's an option. They can hire the AC Academy when it's free, also an option. They need to invest in a Merlin, if not two, it's essential.

I'll be gunned for this, but I think Gary Brent is wasted. He has so much to offer men's high level cricket. He actually spent some time with Ali Frost and he's now doing well- coincidence? Ian Tinker is an excellent coach, he really knows his beans and he coaches at PH. That guy is a bloodhound for sniffing out batting flaws and fixing them, very underrated. Ditto Robin Brown. I don't know the black guys so this is not a black/white issue that I'm kicking off at all. I'm sure there are some good guys that I don't know.
They need a facility with 2 or 3 specialised coaches and they need to have some good material to work with. We won't progress without this. Same story- focus on the HP stuff instead of flooding "grass roots" with shite level 1 coaches.

[Crastle_cog]

Googly, do you know whether Ali Frost is available for Zim selection?

[TapsC2]

You're missing the point, which is to give more of our franchise players a taste against good/better opposition than they're used to. Obviously in the hope that a few of them learn something and the better ones learn to cope and go up a level.

Taps seemed to suggest that County tour would make revelations about the boys that aren't known yet. You're suggesting that it gives quality game time to them, which of course it does, but is a totally different statement.

I'm not saying we will find out if they will ever make it. I'm saying we will find out where they are with their development. I believe they will eventually come good. They are extremely young.

For example Wes has 11 half centuries after about 3 years of international cricket, Williams got his 11th after 6 years of international cricket and his first century after 10 years. BT had 13 half centuries after 3 years and got his first century in his 6th year. BT was averaging in the low 20s in his first 2 years.

Ervine was 25 when he made his debut, Raza was 27. Expecting these kids to be banging centuries at 22 is a bit unfair. I just want to see how far along they are in terms of their development.

Im also not too worried about the big 3 retiring because so far none of those guys who I have seen who play County have a chance of having a long career with England. Most of them will be back. Maybe Muyeye but the others I just don't see it. Especially the guys who are already 25. There is also the Ballance factor as I believe he is better than anything we have at the moment.

The big 3 also rarely play together anymore because of injuries etc. 1 of them is always out for 1 reason or another but we still managed to win a lot of games without all 3 of them playing.

[Donald]

The big six

Ballance williams Ervine Raza muzarabani and burl

[Googly]

Good points

[Googly]

Googly, do you know whether Ali Frost is available for Zim selection?

I think he has the Irish option as well, but Zim would be his choice I'm sure

[jaybro]

Lots of good pints being thrown around ( great to see the forum in great shape again)

My thoughts

- Anyone writing off the ‘little 3’ (as opposed to the big 3) Wes, Shumba & Marumani will be proved a fool in the long run. Sure they’re not ready for Test cricket & maybe not even ODI cricket, but they have talent and they will be the backbone of the national side for a long time.

- Kaia’s revelation proves my point that I’ve been saying ever since I joined the forum 10 years ago (holy shit that’s gone quick) that most baysman aren’t ready for international cricket until they’ve scored 3000-4000 first class runs.

When the Big 3 retire, I’d suggest Zimbabwe might be best to look for experienced players on the local scene to fill the voids. Possibly the likes of Tari, Roy Kaia, Kasuza & of course Burl should be primed by then.

- Players should be encouraged to play overseas in Australia & England, as we’ve seen before they improve loads. The only concern is that they don’t come back.

- The talk about money or lack there of for domestic players is concerning, and also makes me really pissed off with Raza. He’s apparently on around $25k USD per month (can anyone confirm?) which is a lot of money.

The fact Raza has skipped two series now including a Test series, plus he’s also going to miss the Dutch series, I just think it’s poor form. Sure, he wanted to play the PSL & IPL, but he also missed games for the BPL and ILT20 which are Mickey Mouse tournaments.

Raza has a lot of good faith with their fans in Zimbabwe, but when we’re getting pumped at home in a Test match rolling out the likes of Chamu & Tsiga I think leaves a bad taste in the mouths. Unless he secures World Cup qualification I think a lot won’t forgive him.

[Googly]

Usually the player's board will get a slice of the guy's T20 contract. Plus there's a tax issue to resolve. I wonder if a player can register himself as part of an offshore company to stop the tax man getting a piece of something that he has no claim to?
It's the Zim gigs that got Raza noticed. I'm sure he's gambling that he will do well and keep getting opportunities. Its a fine line he's treading. It's about the money, you need to make money in professional sport.

They really should revisit that Rising Stars initiative, but put some good players in there to play the County Two's.
It wouldn't be a bad idea in India either.

[Googly]

[quote[- The talk about money or lack there of for domestic players is concerning, and also makes me really pissed off with Raza. He’s apparently on around $25k USD per month (can anyone confirm?) which is a lot of money./quote]

I very much doubt that. BT was probably on the best package ever negotiated, and that was after he gave some of it away to top up Jarvis' contract.