[Match Thread] U19 WC Plate C'Ship: Zimbabwe vs Namibia

[sloandog]

Rashid Khan, honestly. He isn't a teenager, even a blind man could see that.

[NickG]

Ok fair enough, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a waste if you don’t have enough decent players. I can’t find the list of guys going this year. They would be better off beefing the side up with a couple of guys from the last intake and perhaps a couple of younger franchise guys. Would it be wrong to send someone like Jongwe?

I'm not sure what your point is - are you saying that they didn't have enough decent players last year, or that they need to ensure they have enough decent players this year to ensure that it isn't a waste?

[Zero76]

Players with somewhat dubious ages are nothing new. Just look at Aaqib Javed, if his age was legit he would have made his first class debut at 14, his test debut at 16, and his international career was over before he turned 27. Quite frankly, I am very sceptical about that.

[Googly]

Ok fair enough, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a waste if you don’t have enough decent players. I can’t find the list of guys going this year. They would be better off beefing the side up with a couple of guys from the last intake and perhaps a couple of younger franchise guys. Would it be wrong to send someone like Jongwe?

I'm not sure what your point is - are you saying that they didn't have enough decent players last year, or that they need to ensure they have enough decent players this year to ensure that it isn't a waste?

Both.
It was a fair start, but they need some sort of a squad system whereby they can retain a couple of guys from the previous year and possibly include guys like Jongwe. If they get a reputation for going with a strong side they will find it easier to get the games we need against County Two’s sides. It’s a magnificent opportunity for a good player to really go to the next level and it’s pointless taking a person that you can see is not going to become a FC player. Let’s see when the squad is announced whether there’s the usual poor selections or this is being done thoughtfully. I can imagine how much it costs to tour for an entire season and play that many games, I did a vague calculation a while ago and it was a big figure. It’s clear that there’s focus on this and that has to be to the detriment to the money required back home. ZC have had to fund Club cricket here for years and they have done it abysmally and it’s a terrible mistake to see this RS tour as an alternative to the club stuff. Not only that, it’s been proven that the 12-15 age group has been sorely neglected and this is where they need to really focus, you do this and then you have real material to work with at u19 level. If you halved the length of that tour (20 games is still a lot) and used the balance of that money to focus on the younger boys and keep Club cricket going then you’re talking proper sense.

[Googly]

What they really need money for is to coach our age group cricketers on a regular basis. With the shocking standard of our schoolboy cricket and the negligible number of games that we play we need to have age group squads in place at the beginning of the year. They have to spend money getting these boys to net and play games against each other, even if you mix two age groups if one is that much stronger than the other (surprisingly not usually the case). This is where we are going wrong, we can’t keep wringing our hands at the poor performances we continually see at u19 level and at the Coca-Cola week in South Africa. We do have some good kids and there’s a lot to work with. Of course having some lame coach overseeing all of this it becomes yet another waste of time. We also need to resurrect that CFX facility and get age group players in there grooving shots on bowling machines and getting bowling coaches taking a look at the actions of our better bowlers at a young age, so we don’t get to see boys like Myers on TV with an action that guarantees he will have a permanent back problem before he’s 18. Seriously, how hard can this be to organize? A lowly 3rd division English club is more pro-active with their kids than our national body, it’s disgraceful.

[Googly]

I just want to keep reminding you that they dismantled Club cricket and took it over to control the game at every level, but then have let it implode, they didn’t look past the fact that they would have to end up funding it and that the platform for players to prove they were ready for FC no longer really existed. It’s basically why we see the same players in FC year in and year out. A kid would now have to force his way into FC directly from U19. I’m not disputing RS is a good initiative in this regard, but they’re essentially creating one glorified Club, aren’t they? If it was run correctly within 3 years the RS would become the strongest franchise side, which on the one hand is a good thing, but on the other hand shows that our system doesn’t work. Our club cricket used to be significantly stronger than our current franchise set ups, anyway that bird has flown and the RS has to work, but we now need to focus on the younger players as well. If they don’t put strategies in place I can’t help feeling that the money spent on u19 and RS is just window dressing to tick some boxes and ensure continuity of funding from ICC. The reality is that the ICC has turned a blind eye to most things and seem content to see ZC tick just a few boxes that aren’t really helping us long term.

[sloandog]

Very insightful as always.

If you don't mind me asking, Googly, what is your profession? Are you/have you been involved with cricket at all?

[Googly]

I have a share in a small mine, pays the bills, only just!
I played decent cricket at school, but was more a rugby player. No I’m not actively involved in cricket, but know a few parents, their kids, ex cricketers and ex- administrators and other people who are. I’m not sure my interest, to be honest, there’s very little upside. I often wonder who reads this forum, I know a lot of knowledgeable people no longer post, they’ve all but thrown in the towel, and what I find particularly strange is the interest and posts on this forum from people not actually living here. What is particularly depressing is there’s not often any good news, I’m going to resolve to wean myself off a bit.

[NickG]

Ok fair enough, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a waste if you don’t have enough decent players. I can’t find the list of guys going this year. They would be better off beefing the side up with a couple of guys from the last intake and perhaps a couple of younger franchise guys. Would it be wrong to send someone like Jongwe?

I'm not sure what your point is - are you saying that they didn't have enough decent players last year, or that they need to ensure they have enough decent players this year to ensure that it isn't a waste?

Both.
It was a fair start, but they need some sort of a squad system whereby they can retain a couple of guys from the previous year and possibly include guys like Jongwe. If they get a reputation for going with a strong side they will find it easier to get the games we need against County Two’s sides. It’s a magnificent opportunity for a good player to really go to the next level and it’s pointless taking a person that you can see is not going to become a FC player. Let’s see when the squad is announced whether there’s the usual poor selections or this is being done thoughtfully. I can imagine how much it costs to tour for an entire season and play that many games, I did a vague calculation a while ago and it was a big figure. It’s clear that there’s focus on this and that has to be to the detriment to the money required back home. ZC have had to fund Club cricket here for years and they have done it abysmally and it’s a terrible mistake to see this RS tour as an alternative to the club stuff. Not only that, it’s been proven that the 12-15 age group has been sorely neglected and this is where they need to really focus, you do this and then you have real material to work with at u19 level. If you halved the length of that tour (20 games is still a lot) and used the balance of that money to focus on the younger boys and keep Club cricket going then you’re talking proper sense.

I agree with much of what you say regarding the neglect of grassroots and younger age groups etc, but 'usual poor selections'?? The on-field results of the 2017 RS stand up for themselves and surely any debate on the merits or otherwise of selected players is a subjective one.

Also, I think you have to look at the two issues separately. RS is a worthy project in its own right - I know for a fact that it did not cost a huge amount. Players stayed in student digs, there was some private sponsorship to top up ZC funding. Clubs who took players contributed to the overall cost of the tour, so it was far from a fully funded ZC project. If it helps to bridge the gap between U19 and first class (potentially international) cricket then it is achieving its objectives - and it's probably still a little early to comment on whether or not that has been achieved.

Regarding younger age groups then absolutely, ZC should find the money to rebuild a complete pathway from U9 upwards. Both junior cricket and the Academy approach will benefit cricket in Zimbabwe if run and managed effectively and I don't believe that one is operating at the expense of the other. I think we need to give it more time to see if junior cricket is properly addressed moving forward.

Even as someone who does not live in Zimbabwe (although I have visited a number of times), I am passionate about the development of cricket outside of the traditional 'powers' and I truly hope that improvements will continue to be made at all levels in Zim.

[Googly]

I stand by my statement of “the usual poor selections,”
it has plagued our cricket for a long time and at every level. I see disgraceful selections year in and year out. I wasn’t talking specifically about the RS, but there was undoubtedly a couple of questionable ones last year and I guarantee there will be a few more this year. When they post the list I will do my homework and will point out specifically who shouldn’t be there and a better replacement, it might be one or three or whatever but it’s a guarantee. Of course selections are subjective and it’s what we debate on this forum daily.
You clearly have the inside track and you’re defending RS, that’s cool, I’ve said it’s mostly a good thing if done well and transparently. If all is in order, tell us how much it costs, surely there’s nothing to hide? And it would be good to post the results and the individual stats and ditto for how they’ve done in F.C. here. We need good news.