Zim vs Eng 2003 vs 2025

[Googly]

Sorry don't know what happened there. It wouldn't post.

[Googly]

I have a "sports evolution" theory where basically I think that every sport gets harder over time because of tech and human evolution. So far the class of Usain Built, Gatlin and Powell are so far debunking my theory but I still believe their records will be broken one day.

I just think the amount of money, training, scouting, nutrition and video reviews that go into professional sports these days make it much harder to be a pro for a while. You get found out very quickly if you yourself don't evolve as a player. Which is why I would back a lot of the guys playing now than in 2003.

Simply put I don't think in 2003 Australia even had a plan to get Carlisle out. They just backed their talent. In 2025 I can guarantee you that England has a plan for every single one of our guys just based off pure professionalism. They are studying Raza's variations and Blessing bounce as we speak. They have already identified the passengers in the team. I personally don't think teams paid that much attention to detail 20 years ago.

That's not a theory, it's fact. But then when someone says Bradman would fail in the modern era people start frothing at the mouth.

[zimbot]

9 year gap aside, Williams and Ervine are our stars. Players like Carlisle were just making the team. See the difference?


Who was a better player Carlsle vs Craig Wishart
Also who was a better player Nkala or DT Hondo..

I see your point, however, I would much rather Carlisle than most of the guys today. Carlisle was coming through a system that was developing. He didn't have the chances a lot of todays guys had, but he was a grafter. Willing to learn and apply himself. So many of the guys today just want to get by on the bare minimum. We don't see them grafting and putting in the hard yards to want to improve and enhance their game.

I think you'd have to name individuals in our current national side and periphery.
Probably the guy who practices the least (or so we are told) is Williams and yet he's probably our best batsman behind Andy Flower. Some guys just need less.
I'd think Ervine knows his game and prepares specifically for upcoming games but doesn't do too much in his down time anymore.
Raza I'm sure trains hard, but specifically for T20.
Once the season is underway opportunites to put in the hard yards are less because you need rest. The main work is pre-season and the rest is a top up.

I know there are guys who rely on team sessions more than individual ones and for sure you get less out of those. You're also under pressure from watching coaches, a shit net or two leading up to a game can easily get you dropped.
To get the most out of an individual session one has to work on specifics and not just pound balls.

You need a good thrower, which generally means you have to pay him. Some guys partner up with another batsman, one guy will generally be a much better thrower than the other. When you're earning peanuts you're not inclined to pay anybody.

If you don't get paid a living wage and have to do other stuff to survive in these tough times you're not going to hit 300 balls a day and you're certainly not paying anyone to throw or coach. The number of coaches that can contribute meaningfully to a pro batter here are very limited anyway. It's a huge problem. The number of guys ignorantly and diligently grooving their faults is sad. The guys I'd set some store by are Houghton, Matsikenyeri, Chigumbura, Brent, Taylor, Ebrahim, Ballance, Tinker, Campbell, but you'd be paying out your nostril for a session with them. One session is nothing anyway, you need weeks.
There are only a handful of guys that know their games well enough to get a quick fix from someone with a keen eye.

I know Myers hits a lot of balls. I believe Marumani generally plays only on grass nets, which would limit his volume a bit. Obviously good grass nets are the ideal scenario.
We're short on facilities, one indoor and generally shocking grass nets. The Hub is across town from most guys and it's expensive to get there and you pay to play. Nothing is really conducive to people practicing hard. Most guys don't own a car and have to rely on commuters or expensive fuel.
That indoor facility at HSC needs to be completed ASAP.
There are generally some good players practicing in The Hub, mostly the white guys I think, but Bawa and Myers are always in there, that's where the overseas guys congregate as well. A lot of good information will be exchanged there. You need those professional environments and we're sorely lacking them. By the time you get there, pay a thrower, pay for a net, have a gym session and buy a coffee you're down about $25.
Do that 4 days a week and you're in for $400 a month. It just doesn't stack up.

Insightful.

[eugene]

I have a "sports evolution" theory where basically I think that every sport gets harder over time because of tech and human evolution. So far the class of Usain Built, Gatlin and Powell are so far debunking my theory but I still believe their records will be broken one day.

I just think the amount of money, training, scouting, nutrition and video reviews that go into professional sports these days make it much harder to be a pro for a while. You get found out very quickly if you yourself don't evolve as a player. Which is why I would back a lot of the guys playing now than in 2003.

Simply put I don't think in 2003 Australia even had a plan to get Carlisle out. They just backed their talent. In 2025 I can guarantee you that England has a plan for every single one of our guys just based off pure professionalism. They are studying Raza's variations and Blessing bounce as we speak. They have already identified the passengers in the team. I personally don't think teams paid that much attention to detail 20 years ago.

That's not a theory, it's fact. But then when someone says Bradman would fail in the modern era people start frothing at the mouth.

I posted something about Bradman being a club cricketer by modern standards on an Australian cricket site and received death threats.

[Mr Twig]

Simply put I don't think in 2003 Australia even had a plan to get Carlisle out. They just backed their talent. In 2025 I can guarantee you that England has a plan for every single one of our guys just based off pure professionalism. They are studying Raza's variations and Blessing bounce as we speak. They have already identified the passengers in the team. I personally don't think teams paid that much attention to detail 20 years ago.

How much footage is out there of our guys for them to study? There some highlights posted on youtube like the recent Bangladesh series but we hardly make World Cups or get any mainstream broadcast and I doubt any of the England players have played or even seen our guys before. Only Raza would have any meaningful coverage and we all know where they will target him like the Aussies did.

[Pat_Bee]

I posted something about Bradman being a club cricketer by modern standards on an Australian cricket site and received death threats.

[Pat_Bee]

Simply put I don't think in 2003 Australia even had a plan to get Carlisle out. They just backed their talent. In 2025 I can guarantee you that England has a plan for every single one of our guys just based off pure professionalism. They are studying Raza's variations and Blessing bounce as we speak. They have already identified the passengers in the team. I personally don't think teams paid that much attention to detail 20 years ago.

How much footage is out there of our guys for them to study? There some highlights posted on youtube like the recent Bangladesh series but we hardly make World Cups or get any mainstream broadcast and I doubt any of the England players have played or even seen our guys before. Only Raza would have any meaningful coverage and we all know where they will target him like the Aussies did.

Pitchvision and bet365 bro

[tawac]

Clearly the 2003 squad was miles ahead of the this 2025 side. The team was beating proper county sides on that 2003 tour Carsile scoring a couple of centuries too. We had so much talent back then.

[Googly]

No i don't entirely agree. We've got some decent players and there's a small number of guys that really put in the hard yards daily, much more so than the guys 20 years ago. The Flower Bros were the yardstick back in those days of players that practiced hard. I sincerely doubt they hit more balls than some of our guys now. They certainly didn't do the gym work. Grant ran his arse off, was probably the fittest guy in world cricket.
Don't forget 20 years back there were no sidearms and no bowling machines. Sidearm has revolutionised batting. U don't need to find the one guy in the whole country that can bowl 135-145 accurately and see if he will bowl you 30 overs on the trot There's just no way that part timers of that era practiced more than the guys of today. What they did do is play the best teams and had to learn on the go. Until recently we just haven't played enough international games and our overall standard of domestic cricket is nothing like it used to be. Thats the biggest problem. Its all about the bowling standard, that dictates the overall standard. We are miles behind in this department.

We need a nucleus of guys that want to compete at the highest level and believe that they can. Here's another major problem. Finding guys with extreme motivation. Here ZC plays a part, their constant meddling deflates most of the white guys and a few of the black lads, whilst a handful know they're getting a free pass. Its not good. You need to separate the guys who are just happy to be on a central contract from the guys that want to win and have real DF and determination. We've got 5 players that can pass on information-
Williams- he's a loose cannon, has all the knowledge in the world but hes been messed around so much he largely keeps to himself. Some of it probably his own doing.
BT- also tends to keep to himself, but the new and improved BT might be different. If he is helping out at Takashinga as SZ said I find that a bit weird. He could help out at The Hub which is where some good players practice. You have to decide whether you're going to make a bunch of decent players better or see if you can drag a couple of really good players to the all-important next level.
Ballance- also had problems but keeps to himself, we might see something different now though.
Ervine- also keeps to himself.
Raza- not often around. Don't think he connects well.
That's our nucleus of senior guys. Probably more worried about their own careers and money and politics than helping other players, with the greatest of respect to them. Its a common theme though- ZC deflates them and they end up worrying about themselves. In the Flower Houghton era they were all in it together.


Take these youngsters that are bowling at us now at Leicester. They're far more accurate than our national guys. I mean far more accurate. Granted the pitch was a road yesterday, or our guys made it look like a road, but two youngsters put on a 200 run partnership against our best bowlers with a new ball. Watch their bowlers in the same conditions put our batters under a lot more pressure that we did to them. That's what happened in Bangladesh as well.
Blessing is our best bowler and he'd have made any side we've ever had. When he gets it right hes a handful for any batter, but he can get it badly wrong as well, and he generally has noone that keeps it tight at the other end. They've really blundered by not including Evans. I know I sound like a stuck record but it's about keeping it tight and building pressure and not relying on hallelujah balls.

What we lack are professional practice environments. I'm not talking about national team sessions, I'm talking about individual sessions where there's a good coach involved or there are two or three good players feeding off each other. Guys are left to their own devices. 20 minutes batting in a team net is not enuf. The good guys bat at least an hour a day, if not more. I was told last night that BT is batting between 3 and 4 hours a day at the moment and is like a stick of biltong. If thats the case hes coming back with a bang.
If you're practicing with a mate that cuts you to half an hour. Someone has to throw you balls. Also a guy that can throw left arm spin is like gold dust. Grant Flower! The best thrower in the business. They're like gold dust as I said. Closely followed by Gary Brent.

What has happened is that cricket worldwide has generally improved and we've largely stagnated. We sorely lack quality coaches that are readily available. We lack facilities as well.
Apart from a small handful, guys simply can't afford to practice enough when they don't get paid, are not overly mobile, can't afford kit etc etc.