Tri series Zim, SA NZ

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Googly
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by Googly »

Ya i dont agree with some of those points at all.
There's such an abyss between our domestic and international cricket that other factors have to be considered.
We've seen that one can dominate local cricket and then not feature on the big stage. Its the norm and not the exception actually. We have to find the guys that have or potentially have the skills to compete at the highest level. Using the ZC leaderboards as the sole means of identifying those guys is incorrect and often downright disingenuous.
As a batter you have to have a technique that stands up to the intense scrutiny of international bowling. That cuts out most of our players immediately. Then you need a guy who has a game plan and has proper mental fortitude. That honestly cuts out most of the rest.

Wes is much maligned and discussed, but he's almost our best example of a guy with real skills, but has been mismanaged, has had too much expectation thrust upon him and he just hasn't coped mentally. Whether the expectation was the main contributary factor or not we will never know. It often just takes one or two good innings to break the mental shackles, but they can look a long way off when your head is blown. He will probably open in these T20's. I wonder how much he's looking forward to that?
Maru is another. What a player! But his head is not there.

The batters are not tested at domestic level. The right guys dont get enough A games. They seem incapable or unwilling to identify the "right" guys. They have to look at other ways of narrowing down the list other than looking at domestic leaderboards. Its clear they're a piece of the jigsaw, but only one piece.

They used Tanu M as an example of a guy with good domestic stats that has been overlooked. You have to dissect those stats. He had a couple of huge innings, which was great, but then a string of poor ones. He got opportunities against much better opposition, as you are supposed to, and failed to convert every time. That would relegate most players for a long time, but not so in this case. What's the right yardstick here- Logan Cup stats or how you fare against Durham, Scotland or Canada?

If he had an X factor I would be in agreement with risking shattering his confidence, but I dont see it. Of course you can pick him and hope he gets lucky early on and he does find a way of occupying the crease AND ticking off the runs. Its not going to happen against this level of opposition. There is absolutely nowhere to hide, they will find you! They should get it out of the way and pick him to open in the the remaining tests this year. I'd pay to hear Mawoyo and Rainsford singing for their supper as well. The one thing for certain is that he does not have the same mental pressures as other guys. Half his mind is already free to focus on his actual physical game so he already has a huge advantage. He's not batting for a meal or rent and he's never going to be out of the loop.
I've watched him bat a few times, he's a good player, has decent defence, has a couple of technical flaws, especially on the drive, but on the whole he's ok, but he's not an international, of that I'm certain.

You could stick him and a handful of other good guys into a HPC under seriously good coaches and he'd be a lot better and who knows, he may go to the next level. Without that though, he and 99% of the others are swimming upstream.
This is the big piece of the jigsaw. We need a world class HPC. Other countries have many, countries with seriously strong domestic cricket. Its a prerequisite. We especially need it to somehow try and reduce that gap between domestic and international. Until thats achieved they're not serious about our cricket. End of.

As much damage has been done to Maru and Wes, Madande and Musekiwa will take longer to unravel. You can hide a bit more down the order in a finisher role in the shortest format. It could be 2027 by the time they surrender and realize we've got a better line-up and there's going to be opportunities to stat pad against much lesser teams along the way to really stretch it out.
Again theyre decent players, but theyre not in the same league as Wes and Maru, who have struggled. There are many levels to this game. If I had to pick from these two I'd go with Musekiwa. He's a fantastic ball striker. I just don't think Clive has what it takes internationally. I hope he proves me wrong.

Munyonga I believe in. He's a good player with a high ceiling. He wouldn't make my starting 11, but he's absolutely thereabouts.

There's another article i read earlier. I''ll try and find it.

Googly
Posts: 17901
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by Googly »

Here was a ZC response to a despicable Byo article
Wasn't the one I was looking for though.

Waking up to propaganda from local paid journalists with the headline Chevrons molested by school boys. Here are the facts
1.Proteas had one teenager, Lhuhandre Pretorius… a breakout talent in SA.
2. South Africa does not have backup players. It has depth, something which Zimbabwe Cricket has openly said it is trying to build. Without that, Zimbabwe is forced to field the same players every match. SA players rested had come from SA20 to Champions Trophy to IPL to Test Championship.
3. Party favours, based on vibes, nepotism and club politics - The best performing domestic players were picked for their positions. Eg, Wessly is one of only four players to have three domestic hundreds this Logan Cup. The others are Craig, Ben and Nick.
4. Myers was called in is a backup under the concussion protocols which require specific like for like players to be on the bench. He only played because prince masvaure got sick. And if you can bat at 3 you can open.
5. Wessly Madhevere played two matches 3 years ago and was dropped rightly. He has only gotten back into the team now and deserves the same run as others. He made 87 on return and won the match against Bangladesh in April. Whether he grabs this opportunity is up to him.
6. Coaches have the types of bowlers they like. While Nyauchi is a player of value, the coaches felt he was a better option for this tour after the injury to Richard Ngarava. As for runs, his main job was the wickets.
7. Brad Evans was the sixth best Logan cup pace bowler in the country, so you might want to look at the others ahead of him first. Jongwe was 9th best.
8. The coach said Zimbabwe were one pacer short for his bowling unit. So he had to drop one attacker to present another. Wellington’s ability to bowl unchanged for long while the others on the opposite change is valuable.
9. The Takashinga bias is laughable because Rangers had four. Wessly is from Gladiators, Kaitano, Rimuka.
10. Local coaches are always part of the preps.
11. Of the 11 players, on 2 were under 27. Hardly call them schoolboys

Andy31
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by Andy31 »

The one thing about that article said Taka influence
And then named two Taka players who should have been picked.

Xlife
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by Xlife »

If the rumours are true that Sammons has a personal issue with Evans and that’s the reason Evans is consistently overlooked, then Sammond should be sacked. Personal bias should never influence selection decisions. Besides, regardless of his coaching credentials, it’s clear that most of the players aren’t responding to his methods on the field.

secretzimbo
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by secretzimbo »

How on Earth would Salmon and Evans have a personal issue. He has never been in a Salmon squad or worked with him.

Googly
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by Googly »

Coaches sooner or later come into the firing line. We'd be making a grave error getting rid of these guys, theyre the best we've had for a long time. At the end of the day he's been given the players he has and he can't make them into world beaters. He can make all the right noises but at the end of the day the player can or he can't. If it were solely on the coach sport would be very different. He's inherited a losing team with a losing mentality and they meddle and there are very few players of international calibre. He's not a magician.

If the ZC propoganda is correct he has nothing to do with squad selection, which we know is not strictly true. He supposedly has the final word on the playing 11, which we also know is not true. :lol:

He's not stupid, he knows Evans is a good bowler, so its unlikely that he's vetoed him totally. If he has I'd be very surprised. Evans doesn't do himself any favors though. He just needs to keep quiet and get on with it and toughen up, mentally and physically. He's a bit soft. Worst case he has to play another season here and play well and pray that no-one else comes good. He has to make runs as well. He's fully capable of both. Has to stay injury free as well. He will get another go, but it will be his last and has to make it count.

For some weird reason ZC do seem to buckle under public pressure...from some quarters. Theyre reacting to the public onslaught which is intriguing. There's more to this.

I was reading some of Larry Kwirirai's replies, he's funny and clever, you dont want to get into an argument with him :lol:

Andy31
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by Andy31 »

I don’t know if the link will work but I tried to crunch some numbers of where the better players come from
https://x.com/andrewryan224/status/1943 ... lkU0xJltpw

Marshmallow
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by Marshmallow »


Pat_Bee
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by Pat_Bee »

Where’s lanzoni at? :lol: :lol: Italy in their biggest match ever and he’s nowhere to be seen. Imagine if they qualified and we didn’t :lol:

Googly
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Re: Tri series Zim, SA NZ

Post by Googly »

Zim is just a melting pot of players. There are a limited number of guys that have strong ties or allegiances to a club or a franchise, but the rest move as it suits and as they're told. As far as franchise goes you go where you're told. Eagles slots are the most coveted because 90% of the franchise players live in Harare. Playing "out of town" franchise games is a pain in the arse and you risk your life on the roads getting there :lol:
Southern Rocks is probably the least popular destination. These out of town destinations are shadows of their former selves. Thats being kind- they're tough.

Franchise coaches and assistants move around as well.
Dont forget ZC funds practically everything and they move players to balance sides, they move coaches to reward or punish. Its a big problem because how do you develop rivalries? As a consequence not too many games have an edge to them. You get personal with a guy and you're probably his team-mate in a couple of months time :lol:
Franchise coaching spots are obviously in demand, but these guys dont seem to do much coaching-wise, theyre more managers, which is weird because there are also managers.
Pre-season prep barely exists because nobody knows where they're going until a week after the season starts :lol:
Its window dressing to tick the ICC boxes. I dont know how it gets fixed either because it's a huge part of our problem. If only Masiwa and Tagwirei were cricket fans. :lol:

Its why I'd like to see a SOGO franchise team. They've raised the bar hugely at club level. I firmly believe it would encourage other corporates to enter the fray. Even if it was along racial grounds to curb the jumped up whites the good would outweigh the bad. I mean some black tycoons have zillions of dollars to spare.

There seems to be a miniscule amount of corporate sponsorship but who knows how effectively that's managed. Obviously varies depending on who's involved. You didn't want to be handing cash over to Singo for example, unless you were buying a spot or looking for a happy ending.

In the early years ea franchise had a budget and they were pseudo "independent" and responsible for recruiting their own players and managing their own money. You had to be smart with the budgeting. It gave the good players opportunity to make a bit extra as well. Obviously some franchises were broke a day after receiving their cash :lol: and they hadn't bought a single player :lol:
They canned that because the Brent's won everything :lol:

As far as club goes Takashinga obviously have huge funding, Gladiators get a bit of this as they're an extension, SOGO are next, theyre incredibly well supported and managed and coached. Instead of it being welcomed its caused huge animosity. Ruling over a dung heap is so much easier.
They must take huge credit for making club cricket infinitely more relevant.
It looks like OH now have some sponsorship, Rainbow has a little bit as well I think and the rest seem to really struggle.
We now have 2 big clubs instead of one and a couple of others that are starting to hold their own. Baby steps.

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