[Match Thread] New Zealand vs Zimbabwe, Only Test

[sloandog]

Wasn't me.

Oh dear, sorry mate not sure what happened there

[foreignfield]

Wasn't me.

Oh dear, sorry mate not sure what happened there

No probs!

[FlowerPower]

nd what he's failed forever? Come on...

When did i ever say he's failed for ever....seriously read what I've put before coming out with those stupid comments.

And so what do you want ZC to go and kidnap Sean? Cause he ain't interested.

You know you claim I have no logic in my arguments, but you aren't too far behind!when did i ever say Sean should be back in the side and Sean should do this and that etc...? My point is that if Sean Williams was batting at number three, the side would look much more stable. There, that's all. Mutizwa isn't a number three, Taylor isn't a number three, but Williams is. I also stated that it's unlikely we'll ever see Sean play again, so when did I suggest he should be back in the fold Mr logic ? Answer me that one.

Why do I bother....trying to reason with people who don't operate on logic is like trying to draw blood out of a stone...never going to happen.

Oh give it a scratch man

Point taken, I was hot under the collar, having calmed down, you are entitled to your opinion on any player I suppose, which does include Mutizwa, personally I think his FC performances have earned him the chance, let him mess it up, without us hypothesizing, that is my point of view, its like saying Querl isn't international quality, when he is outshining everyone, including national team stars at FC, how do we know? (Mind you I don't think he is there yet, another season of good performances, like Mutizwa, and I will gladly replace Vitori with Querl if the former continues to struggle. I basically believe in tangibles (read results, which Mutizwa has consistently at FC). He has had two innings of where we cannot discount the carnage around him. I'd like him to fail a few more times , hopefully where all is well around him then pass judgement based on that. (see Chakabva is finally finding his feet after looking out of sorts, thats how it works, it's not a lotto where you pick and drop you have to invest in talent)

No you did not say Sean must come back, but just like I said in another post on this thread I'd like Ballance to open, by implication I want him in, otherwise what's the point of talking about him, if as you say that was the wrong conclusion on my part, apology offered.

Agreed Mutizwa isn't a number 3 but can eventually grow into one if managed correctly and fairly, we knew he was on debut (read inexperienced) and we knew we had a makeshift opening pair (read huge risk our number 3 could be required to open) and still we fed him to the lions, and hence critics like you have a case ready built. I would have prefered he were treated like Ervine, Waller, and Chakabva before him and debuted at middle order (5-7) and gradually work his way up as he finds his feet.

But crux of the matter like I said before (now put more calmly) you will always find a reason not to want him there and its human, we all have our favourites and not so favoured. Accepted Mutizwa isnt your cup of tea...life goes on.

[hhm]

It seems he cares more about being right (at least in his mind) than Zimbabwe actually doing well.

If you think Zim will EVER do well with this same personnel, then think again. You will continue to be subjected to similar performances until we're stripped involuntarily, off our test status! Nothing positive will come out of this lot. They were poor u19s aginst non-test countries, how can they suddenly become world beaters! Our standards are going down, which means the new generation will take evn longer to be ready than the Matsi-Panyangara-Elton generation!

Anyway I can't believe some people (hhm) are calling for the inclusion of Mawhire and Hondo. How can anyone who follows cricket believe Hondo and Mawhire are test standard at the moment? Hondo has basically retired and Mawhire is close to it.

Just like your pertner in crime Sloandog you're hearing voices in your head. This Test must've messed up quite a few minds

I'm not calling for them, but like it or not, a oresent day Hondo & Mawhire would've fared better than Jarvis&Vitori in that Test.

[betterdays]

I appreciate that but my opinion of [Mutizwa] isn't going to change. He isn't a number three, which you have rightfully acknowledged, but equally he doesn't seem up to international cricket. Of what I've seen of him. Will gladly eat my words (unlike Hhm) if i was to be proven wrong.

I think the first sentence descibes every one of us in a nutshell love it!

To be honest, i really can't say much, technically, about FM...he, along with Chaks, are the two I've seen bat the least in fact not more than a few overs but FC performance over a few seasons should be rewarded and he got a chance. I was not at the screen when he batted (though i was only gone a short while ) so still cannot say still - i have had to give him the benefit based on his FC success - but in the end he has not done much worse than anyone else (in a generation of prematurely blooded zimbabweans). I remember some years back when zim went to England with the likes of Duffin (cap'n at the time if i recall correctly), Hondo, Matsi, Mupariwa, Hammie, Vusi, Taibu(?), Vermeulan, Ebrahim and a couple of others; the english press were nothing short of brutal ... "never win anything" (i think they did beat the university side - and possibly a weakened county team), "shouldn't be in the uk" and "certainly shouldn't be wasting county players valuable time playing against them"..."walking wickets" and "club level trundlers". This is what we now do ... blood players young ( someone is saying Hondo is retiring at 32... Aus would be considering debuts ( ) eg Clark) in Zim we now expect that at 32 you can be considered for a coaching role or top position in ZC

[betterdays]

i have a feeling Chakabva wil shine despite the odds. Hami gone

Zimbabwe breaks peoples feelings , yu will be lucky if they live up to expectations .

I said it around 1am today, this guy puts in a lot of effort in training. I saw him enough times at CFX academy and als HSClub. Hes always in the nets and i think he deserves his maiden 50.

and well done to him!! always good when the 'underdog' pulls through.

[hhm]

Will gladly eat my words (unlike Hhm) if i was to be proven wrong

With all due respect, there's a long list of memebrs of the ZCF, whom you can add to that list well ahead of me - including yourself!

I did my adjustments regarding Elton, Regis & Utseya ages ago! Tino earned my respect, but he's still not of international class yet, so it will be sometime before he can look the part, my opinion of him is still pending. I'm sorry FP(& everyone else) but I don't rate Forster, not after he betrayed my confidence in him some series ago like I said - 'he looks bad whether he's playing, leaving, running or in his stance', and was doomed to fail.

Everything a lot of you are saying positive about Regis I condensed very well in that NZ Test in Byo. But despite that half century, I will still drop him in the next game because I feel he's far from being ready, and there are better players. Same view I have of Jarvis & Vitori, except I believe those two are way too poor to be playing any form of international cricket right now!

I seriously mean that last bit, and I know most of you will once again try to lash out at me, but that's ok, the T20s and ODIs are just days away, and they'll be absolutely massacred. Unlike the start of this tour which was months away an dyou could afford to argue against my view of them, the short formats come even sooner, after they bowled utter rubbish and completely failed! Be careful how far you want to go in their defense, if at all! Because there's no way our batsmen can fail to put together 200runs, but as bowlers they will be up against it and will once again be exposed!

This is what we now do ... blood players young ( someone is saying Hondo is retiring at 32... Aus would be considering debuts eg Clark) in Zim we now expect that at 32 you can be considered for a coaching role or top position in ZC

I have always wondered you make so much sense, most of which I agree with, an dyet we remain in the minority!

Through that you can see some posters have got issues. I'm termed biased, but think about it, they run to bowlers who are barely out of their dipers as far as cricket in general is concerned, let alone the FC level, but discount players who've actually gone through most of it. Never mind Ewing&Duffin @ 30odd yrs old, even Rainsford and Panyangara @26odd are said to be past it!

Somehow our peers fail to see that going by their wierd reasoning, the current set of their favorites will be replaced by the likes of Muzhange and Nathan Waller less than 3 years from now! At the rate at which they're going, maybe even sooner. You are told that they need time to mature and be experienced, then you look around and find more than a handful of options who fit that bill but are are not considered. It's crazy. Those very same 'hhm' preferred batsmen can play up to 36, and bowlers 32!

Vitori can learn a lot about proper swing from Hondo! He's succeeded using it against better players, and young Vitori is looking spent already. In the history of Zimbabwe cricekt, have we ever had a worser new ball bowler in any of our Test matches? Both in terms of pace, effectiveness & ability displayed? Based on this,' old' Watambwa muct be fancying his chances of coming down from whereever he is to push for selection. No wonder Madziva signed up for the IPL. With this kind of rubbish Zim is giving to the cricekt world, at Test level, the young boys back home must feel standards are ankle height!

[sloandog]

No worries Flower Power

[eugene]

Hhm, believe it or not but I think we are in agreement about Mutizwa. He really does look to be struggling to keep his head above water and his footwork is poor. Like most (all) of our batsmen he has glaring technical flaws. These flaws need to be sorted before they break into the international side. How are these flaws not being picked up domestically or at school level?

[aydee]

Hhm, believe it or not but I think we are in agreement about Mutizwa. He really does look to be struggling to keep his head above water and his footwork is poor. Like most (all) of our batsmen he has glaring technical flaws. These flaws need to be sorted before they break into the international side. How are these flaws not being picked up domestically or at school level?

Because the standard at said levels is not very good, and he can score heavily regardless of his deficiencies.

Mutizwa's record at domestic merited selection. Here's hoping he can improve and score well in internationals as well in future.