[Match Thread] New Zealand vs Zimbabwe, Only Test

[sloandog]

Mutizwa's record at domestic merited selection. Here's hoping he can improve and score well in internationals as well in future.

Agreed, though I still have doubts over his technique

[betterdays]

This is what we now do ... blood players young ( someone is saying Hondo is retiring at 32... Aus would be considering debuts eg Clark) in Zim we now expect that at 32 you can be considered for a coaching role or top position in ZC

I have always wondered you make so much sense, most of which I agree with, an dyet we remain in the minority

I am sometimes surprised by the hard time you get (and wary to align myself too closely, lest it heads my way ) but there is some truth that cannot be ignored. 26 is not past it (you can add Mupawira to your list as someone who really has not done at all badly – wtf is he doing these days btw?), and 19 – unless they are prodigies (if they are – and fit the bill - they will be whisked off to the counties with promise of a possible future in England) - will be in all sorts of trouble when stepping out of Zim FC cricket.

Drip them in – there is a place for someone who can take wickets in the second innings or can clean up a tail, if they are surrounded by others who will bowl clever [ie be consistent but utterly ordinary]; Mpofu, Price/Utseya, Elton, Rainsford and A N Other – mainly Jarvis, but, Cremer, Shingi, Vitori as we’ve started down that road (even some of those below) can be rotationally dripped in over the next several years while also being regularly selected for A games.

Unless ZC publically states that they have decided to use these latter 4/5 bowlers as sacrificial lambs in order to breed a new bunch [eg Chatara, , Querl, Meth, Muzhange, Ncube…] to take over in 5 years and that actually will be the ‘real’ return of Zim Test cricket, then I am not happy with the cycle they’ve created or appear to be creating…and I feel for the players

[betterdays]

oh yes, the Phantom (aka Chris M) is 37 and looks as good as ever, if not the best he's been!

[Kriterion_BD]

As a neutral observer who has actually watched a quite a bit of Zimbabwe cricket I think I can give some interesting input. I do not agree with hhm; most of his posts are nonsense due to some complex of thinking "ZIM are gonna lose anyway".

Overseas Tests are difficult. Just ask India. Just ask England. Both teams have been humiliated away from home. This is what made the truly great teams great (WI of old, Aussies of the 90s and 00s): they won matches abroad. As a Bangladesh fan, I can tell you guys don't despair...it doesn't achieve anything positive. We once played a home test against India and allowed them to rack up 610-3 declared. In response we were 12-3 following on, making it effectively 130-13 or something like that. We ended up losing by an innings and 293 runs. That match was almost as bad as this one in Napier. The point is, you can't let that define you.

I'm going to give my honest opinions on the Zimbabwe side. I think most of you will agree with most of it.

Sibanda is talented. He was sorely missed. Not sure about his technique, but he seems to be a good stroke-maker. From what I understand, ZC were right to leave him out because he is playing unofficial cricket in Australia. Not state cricket, not the Big Bash League, not the IPL. They can't even be paying him that much to throw away Test caps. Brendan Taylor was playing official cricket in NZ and so the two cannot be compared. Bottom line is, Sibanda needs to apologize to the board and to Zimbabwe, regain his senses, and come back ASAP.

Mawoyo, wasn't he the fellow who scored 160 odd and carried the bat for the first day against Pakistan not so long ago? His obstinate play frustrated Bangladeshis as well. He may not be great, but until better replacements come along, his temperament makes him essential to a team lacking obvious firepower.

H Masakadza is one of those over-rated prodigies in my opinion. Like Ashraful, he's a guy who's early success was probably too pressure-inducing for his own good. He was dropped for a reason, he had a pitiful run of form around the World Cup, came good for a few games thereafter, and is too good to let go, but not good enough to be part of the nucleus. He should bat at #5.

Boy, Brendan Taylor is good. He was in the form of anyone's life not long ago, and I believe he is class of the purest degree. This bloke could surpass Andy Flower himself as Zimbabwe's greatest player by the time he retires. Yes he failed in Napier, but cut him some slack. How many players finish an ODI series against a top side with a 300+ average?

Mutizwa is one who I don't know enough to comment on one way or the other. Give him chance since his airfare has been paid for already.

Chakabva is a guy who I like quite a bit. I think he has a solid technique, at least in subcontinent conditions and against good spin bowling. That is an asset, trust me. Did he face Ajmal and company? If so, how did he do? But I remember he was the one competent player during your last tour of Bangladesh, and pretty much the only batsman who looked like he had a clue as to what was going on.

Taibu is another over-rated guy like Hammy. Again, too good to drop completely, but he's not that great. In particular I think his technique is just not up to par. His tendency to try and be cheeky in limited overs is nauseating. Still if he can average 30-35 at the top level, he should be a more than serviceable keeper-bat.

Craig Ervine should have been persisted with longer. I think he can be Zimbabwe's best batsman apart from Taylor and Chakabva and be just as important as Vusi, and more important than Hammy and Taibu. Where is he now and what is he doing?

Malcolm Waller seems to be a guy full of potential with how he did in the home series against NZ. Haven't seen him play, but his numbers and the context behind them seem very promising. Can't understand why some people are unhappy with him.

Ray Price very good with ball, but perhaps not penetrative enough. Besides the man is old, a new replacement spinner must be found soon.

Cremer is a spinner I like. So far he hasn't had the numbers to back it up, but I think he can be a very attacking Test spinner. He should be persisted with. He will eventually take over from Price.

Jarvis is solid. So he has a poor first innings average, hhm, how many Tests has he played? I think he has all the tools to become a fine pace spearhead. He will never be Dale Steyn, but does he have to be?

Vitori, when I first saw him against us, my jaw dropped. I couldn't believe a debutant was bowling the lines that he was so consistently. Thats why he got 5 wickets on debut. However, he needs to improve his game against right handed batsman as he struggled against even Bangladesh's RHBs if I recall correctly. He may not be the answer to partner Jarvis at the top, but for now he deserves to stay.

I think Mpofu is a decent third seamer. He bowls tight, and can get bounce. He will never run through a lineup, but I think he's a solid first change for now.

*****************

Hhm, bro, I have no idea what you don't see in Jarvis and how you could think mediocre Rainsford is better than him or a better prospect. I don't know much about the likes of Ewing or Duffin to comment, but I have heard the names before meaning they are oldies, and since they aren't very renowned, they could not possibly be any better than Vusi, Tino, Regis, or Malcolm.

Keep the faith!

[Jemisi]

Thanks for the BD input. Nicely measured though I don't quite agree with all of it.

Hhm will create new statistical categories until he finds one that mildly supports his points. Like Stephen Waugh never scored a Test century in Perth - (99* his best) so he was obviously crap and should have been discarded.

[betterdays]

I have no idea what you don't see in Jarvis and how you could think mediocre Rainsford is better than him or a better prospect. .
!

What it boils down to K_BD (and thanks for the input - it is nice to hear some ideas from outside), is that our bowling is struggling - even at home - and it's frustrating us. Why do you say Rainsford is mediocre? He's played 4 times as many FC matches as Jarvis, but still has an average and econ well below (SR similar) + has a rep for being quick too ... and you can very quickly browse their ODI stats too and find Rainsford outbowls him - unfortunately no Test data for Rainsford. but even putting that (and his KJs 1st innings anomolies) aside, and i have said I'd play Jarvis, it's about age and having to lead an attack (and probably fail more often than not). I watched a few overs from Vitori in the T20s and was very impressed, he was having good batsmen in all sorts of tangles ... but he clearly has more power than stamina and if he doesn't get a wicket early, he goes without. Him and Jarvis opening together is a huge risk so who would you bring in?

[hhm]

I do not agree with hhm; most of his posts are nonsense due to some complex of thinking "ZIM are gonna lose anyway".

In this forum it's not hard to see how paragraphs of fact can be mistaken for nonsense, so I'm not surprised you think that way. You're a Bangladeshi, or a Bangladesh sympathiser - mediocrity is common to you. I'm a South African who prefers Zim over SA. Here I've seen Morne Morkel&Smith receive more stick than Jarvis&Waller will ever get from the ZCF throughout their entire careers for Zim, so it's obvious we reason from varied bases of influence!

Overseas Tests are difficult. Just ask India. Just ask England. Both teams have been humiliated away from home.....The point is, you can't let that define you.

Oh and they're under threat of 'losing' their Test status as well.

Jarvis is solid. So he has a poor first innings average, hhm, how many Tests has he played? I think he has all the tools to become a fine pace spearhead. He will never be Dale Steyn, but does he have to be?

poor first innings average - to term yur phrasing an understatemen would be kind

Vitori....for now he deserves to stay.

Are you trying to give Bangladesh every chance possible to get theirs back against Zim in the next series?

How you could think mediocre Rainsford is better than Jarvis or a better prospect

betterdays made a futile effort to enlighten you, and I fear my efforts in this regard would be just as wasteful

Ewing or Duffin could not possibly be any better than Tino, Regis, or Malcolm.

....and someone said I was smoking a/their pipe!

As always I live in the comfort of knowing that, for as long as these guys are persisted with, reality will continue to be on my side. I encourage you to catch a dose of it in the ODI&T20s coming up in a few days - you're severely manourished where that is concerned.

Otherwise for a neutral, I'm happy to see you take an interest in our players, have a fair knowledge of them and have faith in us.

After Bangladesh later in August, for 2013 we have Pak, WI(away), India then SL! I hope for your benefit all these guys are persisted with, and we can see if any improvments will have been made. My money is on two things: 1)worse averages, which even 2 Tests against Bangladesh will hardly do much to help; 2)a review of our test status ahead of a new FTP schedule!!!!!!!

[Dr_Situ(ZimFanatic)]

As a neutral observer who has actually watched a quite a bit of Zimbabwe cricket I think I can give some interesting input. I do not agree with hhm; most of his posts are nonsense due to some complex of thinking "ZIM are gonna lose anyway".

Agree

Overseas Tests are difficult. Just ask India. Just ask England.

Absolutely

Sibanda is talented.... Not sure about his technique, but he seems to be a good stroke-maker. Bottom line is, Sibanda needs to apologize .....and come back ASAP.

I too feel it wasnt wise for him to play in mediocre league

Mawoyo, wasn't he the fellow who scored 160 odd and carried the bat for the first day against Pakistan not so long ago?

Mawoyo's place is secure in my opinion and he is the best bet for opening slot. I am so happy to see a player like him in today's T20 madness

H Masakadza .... He was dropped for a reason, he had a pitiful run of form around the World Cup,

Boy, Brendan Taylor is good. This bloke could surpass Andy Flower himself as Zimbabwe's greatest player by the time he retires.

Chakabva is a guy who I like quite a bit. I think he has a solid technique,

Taibu .... His tendency to try and be cheeky in limited overs is nauseating.

Craig Ervine should have been persisted with longer.

Malcolm Waller seems to be a guy full of potential Can't understand why some people are unhappy with him.

Ray Price very good with ball, but perhaps not penetrative enough.

Cremer ... should be persisted with. He will eventually take over from Price.

Jarvis is solid.

Vitori, when I first saw him against us, my jaw dropped.

I think Mpofu is a decent third seamer.

*****************
Keep the faith!

Is it the subcontinental thinking or our telepathy. You are spot on, on almost all points.

[Kriterion_BD]

You're a Saffer, huh? That would explain your lack of lucid thought...not enough oxygen to the brain due to all that heavy duty choking that has become part of your national image. Cutting the crap, Zimbabwe have done admirably on Test return. Maybe I'm not a Zim fan and so I don't expect ZIM to magically start winning Tests against top sides. But a comprehensive defeat of Bangladesh, a decent fight against Pakistan, a hell of a fight against NZ is a pretty good place to start with. Perhaps you are confusing Zimbabwe with South Africa, but that seems good to me considering PAK and NZ are playing some damn good cricket lately. Frankly that was a lot better than most people expected, I don't know what you've been snorting the past few years.

As for Rainsford, yes, I can confidently say he's not close to the same class as Jarvis and perhaps Vitori. During the ZIM wilderness years of 2005-2011he sent down plenty of deliveries to "mediocre" Bangladesh, and never once ran through them (if I recall correctly). Jarvis and Vitori haven't played a quarter of those matches and have.

[eugene]

And the Bangladeshi sides that Rainsford were bowling to were even more mediocre than the current one. I have never seen any evidence from Rainsford either domestically or nationally that would suggest he is going to come in and take 5 wicket bags for the national side. Jarvis has issues, but at least he has put in some match winning performances. The same goes for Vitori also.