Matthew Bentley plans a career with Ireland

[ZIMDOGGY]

Yeah that was the mind boggling thing about Hhm.
Although I think there were some valid points he would make that people were quick to jump on him for purely because it looked bad from his mouth.

[betterdays]

The confusing thing with hhm was his changing points of view. His posts when he first joined were quite reasonable, and he was calling for exiled players to return, like Colin de Grandhomme and Sean Ervine. His later posts however said they weren't welcome, needed, or any good anyway and that the team needed to be indigenized.

hhm's forum route is well travelled - arrived on the board with a genuine enthusiasm for Zim cricket but would be bombarded with ...

the team would end up being predominantly white ... In 5 years time batters to choose from in no particular order (if all guys made themselves available) would be Taylor (?), Curran (18), Curran (15), Brundle (26), Berl (19), Lake (18), Welch (15), Curtis (15), Ballance (?), Byrom (16), Moore (19), Irvine (?). Completely spoilt for unbelievable batting talent. I can't think of a real quality black batter, and I'm trying hard. Hammy will be retired, not convinced about Vusi.

leaving aside the fact that a lot of white players have made a stab at plying their cricket abroad and have not had a lot of success with it (after a season or two) I am fully aware of how deep feelings run but what is the underlying message here googly? I read your explanation for it in a later post (i even agree with most of it) but it still leaves me struggling not to hear: "black people can't bat" (there's a throwback), "they're lazy/unmotivated" (and another), "they have no talent" because even when you point to a hypothetical future where funds for development are possible "We would have a strong team pretty soon if the guys were paid well and things were organized and players had confidence in a new administration and a new era of cricket, but as I said before, the fact is the team would be predominantly white and that would never happen." you see no places for black folk.

now, trying to be fairly even minded (one can only try ... build bridges and all), I can assume you may mean they have no history in the sport, there are no families that spend hours in the back yard getting advice from their dads, playing with each other etc ... but a functioning cricketing body which offers a future must surely allow for this to evolve ...?

[brmtaylor.com admin]

now, trying to be fairly even minded (one can only try ... build bridges and all), I can assume you may mean they have no history in the sport, there are no families that spend hours in the back yard getting advice from their dads, playing with each other etc ... but a functioning cricketing body which offers a future must surely allow for this to evolve ...?

That's a really good point betterdays.

I think that "playing in the backyard (or on the road, etc)" is probably a pretty good measure of the state of cricket in Zimbabwe. If over the next 20 years the number of black kids playing cricket in the backyard with their dad is always rising then I think that ultimately, whatever happens, cricket in Zimbabwe will make it because there will be so many people supporting the game. West Indies is the closest example I can think of, and Zimbabwe is - I don't know - maybe, conservatively, 75 years behind them? I'd be really interested to know, anecdotally because I doubt any official stats have been compiled on this, if participation rates in black families (not necessarily schools) is increasing.

In my opinion, it will be when the professional black cricketers of this generation... of which there are hundreds and hundreds... have kids of their own and play cricket in the backyard with them that we'll start to see the high calibre, world class black players rising through the system. The same will apply in South Africa too. It's because those kids won't be at the disadvantage most of their fathers (this generation) were at of having to learn cricket at an older age at school or however they were exposed to it.

If cricket is ingrained at a young age - as it is in the white community of Zimbabwe, as it is in England, Australia, India and virtually every other country - then that in itself is fast tracking the development of a player. They don't have to "learn" to love playing the sport, and the basic skills are already there. Of course not everyone will make it, but surely the success rates would be higher because getting the kids involved in the first place is probably the biggest obstacle... and that would already be done at home, in the backyard.

[aydee]

The confusing thing with hhm was his changing points of view. His posts when he first joined were quite reasonable, and he was calling for exiled players to return, like Colin de Grandhomme and Sean Ervine. His later posts however said they weren't welcome, needed, or any good anyway and that the team needed to be indigenized.

hhm's forum route is well travelled - arrived on the board with a genuine enthusiasm for Zim cricket but would be bombarded with ...

the team would end up being predominantly white ... In 5 years time batters to choose from in no particular order (if all guys made themselves available) would be Taylor (?), Curran (18), Curran (15), Brundle (26), Berl (19), Lake (18), Welch (15), Curtis (15), Ballance (?), Byrom (16), Moore (19), Irvine (?). Completely spoilt for unbelievable batting talent. I can't think of a real quality black batter, and I'm trying hard. Hammy will be retired, not convinced about Vusi.

leaving aside the fact that a lot of white players have made a stab at plying their cricket abroad and have not had a lot of success with it (after a season or two) I am fully aware of how deep feelings run but what is the underlying message here googly? I read your explanation for it in a later post (i even agree with most of it) but it still leaves me struggling not to hear: "black people can't bat" (there's a throwback), "they're lazy/unmotivated" (and another), "they have no talent" because even when you point to a hypothetical future where funds for development are possible "We would have a strong team pretty soon if the guys were paid well and things were organized and players had confidence in a new administration and a new era of cricket, but as I said before, the fact is the team would be predominantly white and that would never happen." you see no places for black folk.

now, trying to be fairly even minded (one can only try ... build bridges and all), I can assume you may mean they have no history in the sport, there are no families that spend hours in the back yard getting advice from their dads, playing with each other etc ... but a functioning cricketing body which offers a future must surely allow for this to evolve ...?

Good from you betterdays.

[jaybro]

We would be awesome. The truth is that the team would end up being predominantly white and that would never be allowed to happen. In 5 years time batters to choose from in no particular order (if all guys made themselves available) would be Taylor (?), Curran (18), Curran (15), Brundle (26), Berl (19), Lake (18), Welch (15), Curtis (15), Ballance (?), Byrom (16), Moore (19), Irvine (?). Completely spoilt for unbelievable batting talent. I can't think of a real quality black batter, and I'm trying hard. Hammy will be retired, not convinced about Vusi.
Ballance and Taylor we know, the other guys are youngsters with world class potential. We would actually be a deadly side. Makes me want to burst into tears actually.

You would think Kazusa will be opening the batting for Zimbabwe one day ?? And if Zim could get Kasteni & Samunderu ( Where is he ? ) to come back Im sure there would still be enough Black players pushing for Batting spots even if Zim could call on all their players. Not to mention a couple of young quicks Chatara and Musoko plus two very talented leggies Mushangwe and Mutombodzi.

[betterdays]

If cricket is ingrained at a young age - as it is in the white community of Zimbabwe, as it is in England, Australia, India and virtually every other country - then that in itself is fast tracking the development of a player. They don't have to "learn" to love playing the sport, and the basic skills are already there. Of course not everyone will make it, but surely the success rates would be higher because getting the kids involved in the first place is probably the biggest obstacle... and that would already be done at home, in the backyard.

yeah, even by Googly's standards there appears to be one black batsmen he rates (well, if i understood correctly anyway) ... he offered Hammi and Vusi as options, but said he wasn't convinced of Vusi so I have inferred he's convinced of Hammi. In Shingi's recent interview on cricinfo he says:
"...his older brother, Hamilton, made his Test debut and by the time Shingi finished at school, he wanted to do the same. "I wanted to do as well as he was doing. We used to play backyard cricket together all the time. I guess I went back to cricket because I wanted to be around family.""

Shingi too has come a long way in a short time. He's not the finished article by any stretch but there may be something in the background that's held him in good stead.