2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

[sloandog]

Is Taskin Ahmed no longer considered a good prospect?

[encore]

You're being very naughty Kriterion. Where are Moor and Burl? Moor has a 35 average in Test already, and Burl has a 40+ FC avg already(it was stupid&unfair to debut him against the Proteas when the likes of Chakabva, Vusi, Forster, Williams, Mawoyo etc were still around). Jongwe is a bowling allrounder, and Mutombodzi is now a batting allrounder. Your view is misleading because both Mutombodzi and Maruma have got huge numbers in the past few seasons of the Logan Cup becuase they started of primarily as low order bowlers. Their Logan Cup FC averages since they became batsmen have been well north of 40.

Musakanda is like Chakabva. Chakabva gave up the gloves played a couple of seasons high up the order to give himself a better chance of playing in the national team. Otherwise both are 40+ FC batsmen.

Mutumbami is a solid FC batsman. His average is closer to real even though he moved up and down the order. Rainsford, Chatara, Panyangara, Mpofu, Meth, Jarvis, Shingi etc are better than all FC seamers in Bangladesh's current setup except Mustafizur. So Mutumbami is not bad we've all followed his work in the Logan Cup. He was young, played against world class bowers from SA and PAK, then away to you guys. He just needed more chances which he did not get unfortunately. But he's good enough for a ZIM Test keeper-bat.

Do you have any idea the kind of numbers Hami, Vusi and Mark Vermeulen would have if they batted lower than 3 for the bulk of the time? They may have started off lower but they mostly played in the top order. Taibu averages over 40, and yet he(and Hami) started off as 15-16 year olds batting against the likes of Gus Mackay, Englebrecht, Price, Streak, Watambwa, Paul Strang, Hondo, Blignaut, Olonga etc. Still Hami averages 45 in the Logan Cup, so imagine how much more he would have averaged 55+. He is simply ZIM's best FC product since Andy Flower. For the odd poor quality game against BAN XI, there were several games against top SA franchise bowlers and A/XI sides from PAK, NZ, AUS, SL etc.

It is and has always been significantly tougher to open the batting in ZIM. Just look at experienced Vusi and Mawoyo in the past few seasons.

How much do Andy and Grant average here: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament

I'm not too bothered by a Musakanda, Chari and Kasuza averaging lower than they should because they are facing the heat. Burl and Moor dropped lower in the order. Good for them. The forum is full of countless complaints of why Taylor, Craig, Sean, Malcolm and Williams have been constantly batting 4-6 in the Logan Cup. And the results don't lie.

That is why a Mawoyo can do what a Sean can't for example against quality seamers/spinners. Pedigree against two sets of new and old balls. Although Vusi would have achieved even more batting lower, he, Hami and Mawoyo were the foundation up top for a lot of Zimbabwe's successfult re-entry into Test cricket. Along with Hami, Taylor has been Zimbabwe's top Test batsman, but when Taylor started he struggled more than even Matsi, despite a better FC record. I have absolutely no doubt that Matsi woul have had a 35+ Test record had he not opened and mostly batted 4-6, plus ZIM not stopped playing Tests.

So Kasuza, Chari and Musakanda will be fine trust me. Burl would do well to not run away from the top 3 as well. It will work against him. When the top order falls cheaply away from home you're as good as an opener. That's what BT found.

[sloandog]

Burl would do well to not run away from the top 3 as well. It will work against him.

Yea I agree with this a lot. He's a top order batter, we all know this. Batting down at 7 and 8 won't improve his game at all and he'll have the mentality of a finisher, when ideally I'd like to see him batting above Sean Williams in the middle order.

[Kriterion_BD]

Is Taskin Ahmed no longer considered a good prospect?

The BCB certainly have him in their plans. He was picked for the Ireland tri series before the WC, the SL tour immediately after the WC as well. But he didn't make the XI. Was also picked for the Afghan Test match. My impression is that he was an extremely promising 19 yo (bowling consistently above 140 clicks), but was unable to develop his game from there.

His natural talents were very rare to find in BD, but at this point an Abu Jayed who bowls 15 clicks slower with control and swing is more useful.

[zimbos_05]

Literally says Hammy has a great record. Then to provide proof, links to a match in which Zim lost by an Innings and he scored 44 across two innings, and also one match in which Hammy didn't even play.

[encore]

I've banged on about this really. During the Ashes when England had an openers problem, what did they do? They moved Joe Denly up.

Over the years when ZIM consistently had problems in all formats, you would have expected them to move AT LEAST ONE of Taylor, Craig, Williams, Malcolm or Raza up to open. Up to 5 bloody options!!! But what did they do? Utseya, Maruma, Jongwe, Mutumbami, Chakabva! Mindless. Not even Moor or Burl. But chuck Musakanda and Kamunhukamwe there at the earliest opportunity.

For NZ, England had options to make changes. Sibley was rightly picked. But after him there was Ballance and Northeast, both at the same age, but Ballance has a 40+ average. Instead they picked Zak Crawley who has a 31 career FC average, and is averaging just 34 in in one of his best seasons. He's an opener so they view his figures with more perspective.

ZIM rightly pick an opener with a low average PJ Moor because he's performing for the A/XI side, and what do they do? They bat him at 7/8. When a specialist keeper is picked in the side(Chakabva) they move Moor one spot up - and continue to sacrifice Hami as an opener(for him to average less than the maligned Vusi who has the same 50+ scores in half the number of matches over the last 10 years in ODIs).

Mire opened in a Test match when the batting stocks were Craig, Taylor, Moor, Raza, Williams, Malcolm and Burl. Imagine that! And I can bet you not a single forumite saw anything wrong with that. But those same people curse selectors all the time.

Yes, ENG and AUS can pick Roy and Finch as openers, but those are seasoned FC batsmen. Mire was not a FC player in any way shape or form. Plus he's no David Warner, and even if Warner was picked prematurely as many argued, it was for T20s not Tests, for which he had to prepare for thoroughly in FC.

At least Moor has put in a shift, but it's very clear Burl does not want to, having just tried then and ditched it despite opportunities arising. Mire's retirement has forced Taylor's hand, and now Hami's retirement will do the same - both selflessly looking to protect their younger kin. Except in ODIs, with the new League, ZIM simply cannot afford to have a Taylor opening the batting and falling cheaply. What then? Two vacancies - recall Chamu and Vusi to continue to spare the others, or turn it into a revolving door of the "undesirable" youngsters?

I still maintain, being forced to open even when he had decided he'd rather not, and not being able to slot into the middle order, is one of the main reasons Mire left. He tried to bowl a near full quota to justify his inclusion in the low order, but it was just too much for him considering some could get away with just an over or two.

[jaybro]

This rubbish argument has been proved wrong so many times, for years you claimed Hamilton & Vusi were ‘forced to open’ but both have been quoted saying they enjoy facing the new ball !!!

Now you’re claiming Mire left because he was forced to open Mire was opening in Australia long before he came back, and where exactly is your proof that he was forced, or that he didn’t want to open ??

Jongwe & Maruma have opened once both times due to injuries so it’s hardly worth noting. Regis & Richmond were both tried at different times, But it’s not uncommon for teams to open with their wicket keepers in ODIs to try & fit in an allrounder, both players have had their chances in the middle order as well.

Tari has never opened for Zimbabwe, but last season decided to open for the Rhinos, maybe he wants to open? Kamunhukamwe has always opened because he’s an opener.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Mire was upset that he had to bat low down the order in the '15 world cup, and requested he open if he were to continue playing for Zim.

Also, Burl was left out of the domestic squad last year because he had a tantrum that he wasnt allowed to open, as he saw his future with Zimbabwe being the vacant openin spot, and wanted experience.

We spoke widely about it at the time.

[jaybro]

Mire was upset that he had to bat low down the order in the '15 world cup, and requested he open if he were to continue playing for Zim.

Also, Burl was left out of the domestic squad last year because he had a tantrum that he wasnt allowed to open, as he saw his future with Zimbabwe being the vacant openin spot, and wanted experience.

We spoke widely about it at the time.

Doesn’t his narrative so he’ll just ignore it & carry on about the white kids being privileged or some shit

[zimbos_05]

I can't tell if he thinks the white guys pick the team and starting XI or if he has forgotten that selectors, administrators and coaches exist.