[Match Thread] Bangladesh v Zimbabwe 4th ODI

[eugene]

The thing is that this isn't the best team Zimbabwe can field. What is Maruma doing there ahead of Ervine? Why are Moor and Chakabva coming in during the last 10 overs when you need your big hitters?

[sloandog]

Another pretty abject showing. Unfortunately, I feel that this series is representative of the position that Zim cricket finds itself in. For all the criticism of Mangongo, I do not feel that he is the major problem here, this is simply the level that this team is capable of playing at (in these conditions). No doubt, I would like to see an experienced former test cricketer as coach, but blaming the results of this tour on Mangongo is just as daft as giving him the credit for the Australia win. Simple scapegoating, that misses the wider issues at stake.

Mate Mongongo is the cancer in this team, how can you say that? His attitude is filtering down to the players, who are evidently getting more and more frustrated with his tactics. And whats more, he can't even pick the best side. He took out Panyangara today who has been our best bowler on the tour in all the formats. He needs to seriously pull it together. I don;t think even the board will show much more patience with him

[foreignfield]

The only positive outcome of this tour is the emergence of Solomon Mire. I reckon he could be even more valuable as our finisher slightly further down the order.

[CrimsonAvenger]

The thing is that this isn't the best team Zimbabwe can field.

Yeah, that's the bottom line. Maruma has been made to lose his self esteem time and again on the world stage while he could have continued his development in the local scene and came on later. Moor did start a mania but someone who has a non-existant footwork will rarely succeed in top flight unless they have a sensational hand-eye co-ordination. Even Taylor had this issue but improved later in his career. But Moor is way more worse in that department. Chakabva might not even be an ODI player, his test exploits notwithstanding. His List A stats testimony to that. Mutumbami should have been playing in the ODIs ahead of him. Heaven knows what Vusi is still doing there. Madziva should be sitting at home and Mupariwa should have been playing. I have no idea why you would rest a Chatara or a Panyangara when pride is at stake. I'm no big fan of Ervine either but he does seem to do better in shorter forms. Only bright spots being Mire and Kamungozi giving a good account of themselves.

[zimbos_05]

The thing is that this isn't the best team Zimbabwe can field.

Yeah, that's the bottom line. Maruma has been made to lose his self esteem time and again on the world stage while he could have continued his development in the local scene and came on later. Moor did start a mania but someone who has a non-existant footwork will rarely succeed in top flight unless they have a sensational hand-eye co-ordination. Even Taylor had this issue but improved later in his career. But Moor is way more worse in that department. Chakabva might not even be an ODI player, his test exploits notwithstanding. His List A stats testimony to that. Mutumbami should have been playing in the ODIs ahead of him. Heaven knows what Vusi is still doing there. Madziva should be sitting at home and Mupariwa should have been playing. I have no idea why you would rest a Chatara or a Panyangara when pride is at stake. I'm no big fan of Ervine either but he does seem to do better in shorter forms. Only bright spots being Mire and Kamungozi giving a good account of themselves.

A good coach will be able to fix or identify these issues and work on them. A good coach wont also be changing his side every damn game without any idea of what he is doing.

Im sorry, Mangongo has to go. He is just absolutely terrible. He has come across as a messiah for the Aus win and will have his moment in the sun being a coach at the WC, but he will just continue to drag down Zim cricket over and over again.

When he took the job he said he didnt want us to be losing to minnows or smaller teams and wanted us to challenge big teams.

1st test - lost by 3 wickets in 3 days
2nd test - lost by 161 runs
3rd test - lost by 186 runs

1st odi - lost by 87 runs
2nd odi - lost by 68 runs
3rd odi - lost by 124 runs
4th odi - lost by 21 runs from a winning positions.

Of all those games, we have been ridiculously embarrassed. Only the last one we had a chance and we royally messed up.

[Kriterion_BD]

Due to work, I've been sleeping through this series, waking up periodically to check the scores. Didn't realize Zim were dominating this match. The thing is BD has lost several games from exactly this type of position in 2014. Had we won those, we'd have a positive win loss ratio against top 8 sides for the last 3 years.

[aydee]

Another pretty abject showing. Unfortunately, I feel that this series is representative of the position that Zim cricket finds itself in. For all the criticism of Mangongo, I do not feel that he is the major problem here, this is simply the level that this team is capable of playing at (in these conditions). No doubt, I would like to see an experienced former test cricketer as coach, but blaming the results of this tour on Mangongo is just as daft as giving him the credit for the Australia win. Simple scapegoating, that misses the wider issues at stake.

Mate Mongongo is the cancer in this team, how can you say that? His attitude is filtering down to the players, who are evidently getting more and more frustrated with his tactics. And whats more, he can't even pick the best side. He took out Panyangara today who has been our best bowler on the tour in all the formats. He needs to seriously pull it together. I don;t think even the board will show much more patience with him

I don't in any way think he is an appropriate calibre candidate to be an international coach, and as such this probably has some impact on the team. However, it's players who win or lose matches, and Zim's haven't been remotely good enough on this tour, Mangongo or no Mangongo.

[eugene]

Some of our senior players should be performing regardless of the coach. Taylor's form falls squarely on him. It is the younger players who I am more concerned about.

[zimbos_05]

Some of our senior players should be performing regardless of the coach. Taylor's form falls squarely on him. It is the younger players who I am more concerned about.

I think thats nonsense. Players perform as well as they are coached or trained to. You could perhaps argue that in teams like SA, Aus, India for example. Lets be honest, we consider the likes of Taylor, Hami, Vusi to be senior players. But lets not forget that the likes of Taylor came in to the side based on the player walkout in 04. They were thrown in to world cricket at a young age without the proper development. These 'senior' players are being asked to take on a role they are not used to. They being asked to take on the roles that people like Dhoni, Clarke, Cook, Amla, and De Villiers play. They cant be playing these roles with the current state of cricket in the country.

We have not had any recognisable or quality coach to train our players how to play cricket. A lot of what they have learnt has been through their own accord and their own volition.

The players coming in now are not coming through any sort of structured development program. They show one or two signs in a few domestic games and they get thrown in. Then they play at the highest level, and often get smashed by opposition, and they do not know how to respond. The management does not give them the skills, confidence or know how to respond or develop.

Its a massive thing to expect our players to go out on the field and perform the way we expect them. They need a management and support structure to nurture and develop them. It is just one big mess up at the moment and it wont get better any time soon.

[Kriterion_BD]

This has been a disappointing tour by ZIM. However, I think fans get a bit carried away, on both extremes...don't worry BD fans do it too. In fact, all fans do. Remember, "fan" is short for "fanatic" which indicates an irrational state of mind. The fact of the matter is is that reality is usually somewhere in between the two extremes.

Is Mangongo a bad coach? Yes, I think its pretty obvious he is. Should he be fired? Most probably yes. However, the idea that replacing him with Andy Flower or even a legendary coach will drastically change the fortunes of the team, is perhaps far fetched.

Andy Waller and Alistair Campbell were recent coaches of ZIM. Yet, ZIM was never a world beating side. Of course always missing a handful of key players, never helps, but the reality is that ZIM are always going to be playing without an Ervine, a Ballance, or a Jarvis.

Yes, ZIM should have competed better during this tour. But they did come up against a wounded tiger that was desperate to lash out by any means necessary. That was always going to be tough in foreign conditions. Very few teams play up their fans' expectations on foreign tours. How many series have been won by overseas teams in the past 2 years? Past 5 years?

The other thing is, Bangladesh have dominated ZIM fairly strongly since the rebels left in 2004. 5-2 (1 draw) in 8 Tests, and have won 8 out of 11 bilateral ODI series (33-15). Even at home, overall ZIM have a 10-12 record in ODIs. It was always going to be a challenging series in BD, despite what Dr Situ might imagine. Since Andy Flower retired, and Grant Flower and Streak and company also called it a day, BD have been the considerably stronger side, both head to head, and against the top sides of the world.

That being said, ZIM's selections for this tour have not been up to par. I think the Test series had pretty good selection. Sibanda got one chance, as the elder statesmen, then Chari replaced him. Chari and Mawoyo both had the same audition for this series - A team tour to BD - thats a pretty rare luxury. Chari scored runs, and Mawoyo didn't. If Mawoyo was picked out of form, what purpose does an A team tour serve? Chakabva got the spot over Mutumbami and vindicated the selectors choice as there had been a lot of debate on ZCF over the past year who should get the starting keeper spot. Chatara bowled tightly, but didn't threaten to take wickets. As the leader of the pack coming in, he got 2 tests and then was replaced by Shingi. Again, can't really complain. Nyumbu should have been persisted with, but going against him was the fact that he made zero impact on a pitch that turned square from the very first session. But his replacement, Mushangwe, was a guy who was highly touted coming into this series.

In ODIs, yes, the selections have been terrible. Maruma should have never been picked, let alone allowed to play 3 games. Same for Vusi - although he is a senior experienced man. Ervine should have started and allowed to play himself into form. Apart from that, I think the selectors did a fair job.