zimcricketforums.com

Hi guys,
I'm stuck in traffic today.

Its bullshit because i think its caused by a random breath test up the road, why hold up an already busy road with this?

Anyway I was thinking Zimbabwe cricket today. I just had a few random thoughts pop into my head. Some negative, some positive, just things we dont often say or talk about.

1.
If we got all the best zimbabwean players of the last thirty years and had a genuine best of test team,they still wouldnt be better than the current Australian or indian test team. Although they would certainly be capable of beating them on their day.

2.We rave (and rightly so) that Streak was our best paceman and only real world class bowler of all time. However, to put it into perspective, he still wouldnt be any better than any given australian paceman at any given time in recent memory. He is really only on the same level of a peter siddle. Big fish in small pond effect. However credit goes to him to doing it despite a modest setup.

2.1...However the same cannot be said about Andy Flower. He would truly be a jewel in the crown of most test nations. Australia would kill for a peak andy flower in their side today, as would all other teams.

Ironically, during Andy Flowers peak, Australia may not have taken him as they had Gilchrist at the time and a strong batting lineup. Gilchrist and Sangakkara are arguably the only two keeper/batsman who are better than him.

3. Old Zimbabwe had a fighting spirit and many fans are drawn to them, as we have witnessed in this forum. Same cannot be said for the current bunch, who's attitude looks defeated very early on.

As a result, I dont think any outside fans are really drawn to the current lot.

4. Craig Ervine is quality, but has he really delivered when it matters that often? Or is he the ultimate minnow bully? destroying associates and depleted test nations. If I'm to be honest, this has been suspected before.

5. Zimbabwean players are in context, paid well. Not always on time, but well. I calculate this on a participation to professional ratio and the fact the current test team is only a modest to strong grade clubs in the big nations. Or a very lowly ranked county team. Harsh but true. The road to professional cricket in Zimbabwe is not that high. I genuinely think i could get a Logan cup gig if the test team and A team were away.
Think about it, If Timycen Maruma or Pj Moor were based in Australia, they would be also rans in the club scene, and wouldnt be paid, or at best, free rego +50 bucks a hit. They wouldnt be names on a world stage with a cricinfo profile and a highlights reel.

All good thoughts. Thank goodness you are posting, this place is rather quiet at the moment. Where is hhm when you need him?

I reckon he's waiting there in the background. ready to unleash on all things white.

Actually agree with all of this. Decent perspective.

I agree with most but would moderate the Streak thing. I can think of quite a few Aussie test seamers that he was better than. The comparison with Siddle is probably fair - but Siddle has been better than quite a few seamers that have come and gone over the last couple of decades. Think Scott Muller etc.

Scott Muller a one test wonder.

Do the same with a bowler whos p;ayed over twenty tests?

ZIMDOGGY wrote:Scott Muller a one test wonder.

Do the same with a bowler whos p;ayed over twenty tests?

Kasprowicz, Bichel.

Paul Reiffel would have been on par with Streak.

I can easily envisage Streak playing 30-odd tests for Australia as a third seamer who can bat -- in his era. Not saying he would have, his swing bowling probably proving less effective in Oz conditions. But then he would have played County for a number of seasons and would get picked for the England tours on the back of this. Or he would have ended up like Steve Magoffin, to pick a random name. For England he could have played 100 Tests and taken close to 350 wickets. I'm struggling to think of consistently better English bowlers in his time: Darren Gough or Angus Fraser would have come closest (and Heath was a far better better batsman than both). Jimmy Anderson is already a different generation, even if their careers overlapped.

But good observations anyway.

Interesting thoughts on Andy Flower. He was not only truly world class, but was playing in a relatively weak side, and had to deal with the political/racial issues as well, unlike Gilchrist or Sangakkara.
While both of the above were superb, it's easier to come in and get runs when you are 300/5, as oppose to Zimbabwe, who were more like 50/3 when Flower came in.
And of course Zim didn't play themselves, so to average over 50 in Test cricket as Flower did, really puts it in to perspective how good he was.
Another thing about Flower, was his concentration and stamina.
In a test vs South Africa at Harare in 2001, he kept wicket for 10 hours without conceding a bye (600-3 dec), then he batted for a total of 16 hours over 2 innings as Zim followed on ( 142 not out, and 199). This is truly phenomenal when you think about it, and for me puts him above Gilchrist or Sanga.

Like you guys said, those days Zim played with strong teams and Andy came very early in the innings. He often carried the team to the defend-able total. I remember how well he played in the test matches in India. Other Zim players scored 50-60s and most got out quickly, but he remained invincible. Everybody in the Indian team knew he was the only guy who they need to get out early. Gilchrist also had great stamina and better power than Andy. But, Andy was class and he could literally play any kinds of shots. He was too good against the world class spinners. Not sure about ODIs, but I would rate Andy higher than Gilchrist and slightly lower than Sangakara in test matches.

Back then, Zimbabwe played nearly as many tests as everybody else.

Zimbabwe, like today, were the whipping boys of the test world.

All star batsman got the luxury of having their averages padded up by playing against Zimbabwes potato pellet gun attack.

Even at our best, our bowlers were still very much sub par compared to the rest of the world. Besides Streak, and a lesser extent Strang and Brandes, we havent had any first class quality bowlers, let alone international quality. The likes of Blignaut and Jarvis were decent, and we saw the odd flash of quality from Price and Olonga, but at the time of playing for Zimbabwe, I don't believe they would have made either the South African or Australian first class system.
Jurys still out on Cremer.

Andy Flower never got to face his own team of park cricketers on the world stage, as Robbo mentioned. If he had played 6/7 tests against Zimbabwe himself, it would be fair to say he would average 3 runs or so higher.