zimcricketforums.com

With a somewhat busy cricket season ending, its a good time to take stock.

As a BD fan, I remember when Bangladesh were dead last 11th out of 11 (behind Associates Kenya) up until 2006. As recently as 2009, we had 0 points on the Test table. At any rate, this will be a weird subjectively quantitative post. Bear with me.

Zimbabwe has made some real progress this season, at least in incremental but important ways. Madziva sealing a clutch T20 win vs India was a landmark effort, and Tiripano repeated the effort a few days ago. That builds confidence and has a ripple effect into future games.

If you had a 0-100 scale of ranking teams across all formats (Tests, ODIs, T20Is) I would put the legendary Australian side featuring Ponting, McGrath, Hayden, Warne, and others at a 99. India with Tendulkar/Dravid/Laxman/Zaheer/etc would be around 85-90. The current West Indies side would be around a 50. In other words, teams that regularly compete against the best sides would rank 70+. Teams that only occaisionaly compete eg Bangladesh from 2005-2010 would be in the 30s.

Where would you rank Zimbabwe on such a scale? Which Zimbabwe team in the post-2004 era would you say was the strongest and how would you rate them? I'd put Zimbabwe at about a 25 currently and say the strongest side was in 2013 when they had beaten Pakistan in a Test and chased 330 against New Zealand in an ODI. That team was probably around a rating of 45.

What can we expect from Zimbabwe in the near future?

Firstly the team seems to have self belief under Streak's stewardship, something they lacked with all previous coaches. We saw it when he was the bowling coach a few years ago. If Streak can convince some of the white players to return, Zimbabwe's fortune will be much brighter.

Inevitably, the individual players dictate the success of the team as a whole. The top sides each possess at least 5 or 6 "world class" players, ie players who can consistently win the team games. They have a few role players, the mediocre sides more than the absolute best, but very few passengers. Here is how I'd class Zimbabwe's current team (assuming BRM Taylor returns next year):

Tier 1 (World Class players)

Taylor

Tier 2 (potentially World Class)

Ervine, Musakanda, Cremer, Mumba

Tier 3 (potentially Tier 2)

Raza, Williams

Tier 4 (the rest)


The rule here should be a young guy under 25 should be monitored and invested in to see if he can jump into one one of the top 3 tiers. This includes guys like Chatara, Jongwe, Chari, among others.

But guys like Vusi, Elton, and Hamilton most likely will not ever move out of tier 4.

Will add detailed comments about why I put the players where I did.

I would also say the team that went to the world cup which had Taylor Mire as well as a fit Chatara and Panyagara was also quite strong and failed to live up to its potential. I think what has happened is not necessarily us getting worse..we still occasionally knock over big teams. I think its to do with the emergence of Afghanistan as a very decent unit which has made us look bad.

in terms of progression I think by 2019 if we manage to convince Taylor and Mire(who I think had serious potential to be the all rounder we are searching for as he scored a couple of fifties, was bowling at about 137kph consistently and could hit the bowl a long way) to come back and bring in Mumba Musakanda PJ Madziva Gumbie/Murray Lake and Burl to complement Williams Cremer Ervine Vitori and Raza(+Mawoyo and Chakabva for tests) then we can be pretty much where we were pre 2004 if not better.

our stats and results were never amazing even before 2004. we just had more fight in us. Hamilton Masakadza having the 10th highest ODI batting average besides all his failures is proof of this. in fact Ervine Williams Raza Taylor Hami and Taibu are in our top 10 ODI averages ever and they predominantly played post 2004.

the key for me is to get rid of the likes of Hami Elton Vusi Mpofu and Waller in ODIs and Tests to let the younger guys gain that invaluable experience

TapsC wrote:I would also say the team that went to the world cup which had Taylor Mire as well as a fit Chatara and Panyagara was also quite strong and failed to live up to its potential. I think what has happened is not necessarily us getting worse..we still occasionally knock over big teams. I think its to do with the emergence of Afghanistan as a very decent unit which has made us look bad.

in terms of progression I think by 2019 if we manage to convince Taylor and Mire(who I think had serious potential to be the all rounder we are searching for as he scored a couple of fifties, was bowling at about 137kph consistently and could hit the bowl a long way) to come back and bring in Mumba Musakanda PJ Madziva Gumbie/Murray Lake and Burl to complement Williams Cremer Ervine Vitori and Raza(+Mawoyo and Chakabva for tests) then we can be pretty much where we were pre 2004 if not better.

our stats and results were never amazing even before 2004. we just had more fight in us. Hamilton Masakadza having the 10th highest ODI batting average besides all his failures is proof of this. in fact Ervine Williams Raza Ta
ylor Hami and Taibu are in our top 10 ODI averages ever and they predominantly played post 2004.

the key for me is to get rid of the likes of Hami Elton Vusi Mpofu and Waller in ODIs and Tests to let the younger guys gain that invaluable experience

Is mire overrated how many wickets did he get at the World Cup..
Why did Chibhabha not bowl in the tri-series
Has Zimbabwe given up hope on Gumbie & Zhuwao

Players have been accused of using Zimbabwe audition themselves to franchises around the World or just returning for a World Cup for a cash grab. But Solomon Mire is the biggest culprit of all !!! All we got our of him was a ODI series in BD then his small offerings at the WC where he showed the World he was a slogger at best. After the WC he was gone never to be seen again .....

PJ Moor 44 list A games with an average of 19
Mire 33 list A games with an average of 31

PJ Moor 14 ODIs with an average of 19.3 (no 50s)
Mire 10 ODIs with an average of 19.8 (2 50s)

but you call PJ a talent and Mire a slogger. they can both add value if u ask me.. yes Mire only has 5 wickets but for me someone who was bowling faster than every bowler besides Vitori and Mumba and can hold the bat is a valuable asset who can be trained to play a big role especially considering the next world cup is in England.


People have to understand that all these players want to play for Zim but its the economy and board who make it difficult.some guys have less patience than others. some will stick it out.some won't. I would rather be training him now than sticking with somebody like Elton who is clearly not interested in bowling anymore. offer them contracts. u never know. I hope Taibu is working on this.

How's Solly doing in Aus this season? It's a difficult transition to suddenly play at international level in a WC and expect to do well. It's a great pity he's not here permanently because he's good. It would remain to be seen if he could do well at the higher level. These last games against Sri Lanka and WI would have been a great opportunity for us to see if he could make the necessary adjustments.
The problem is ZC would have to offer these players a lot more money than the other guys are getting. They seem to have made a decision not to. We need a national team with more fight because that's what generates the interest from the youngsters to put in the time and effort. In this modern era you're not getting anyone to stay here and make a career for 2-5 grand a month. You can't raise a family on that here. At the end of ten years of toil you will be destitute.

TapsC wrote:PJ Moor 44 list A games with an average of 19
Mire 33 list A games with an average of 31

PJ Moor 14 ODIs with an average of 19.3 (no 50s)
Mire 10 ODIs with an average of 19.8 (2 50s)

but you call PJ a talent and Mire a slogger. they can both add value if u ask me.. yes Mire only has 5 wickets but for me someone who was bowling faster than every bowler besides Vitori and Mumba and can hold the bat is a valuable asset who can be trained to play a big role especially considering the next world cup is in England.


People have to understand that all these players want to play for Zim but its the economy and board who make it difficult.some guys have less patience than others. some will stick it out.some won't. I would rather be training him now than sticking with somebody like Elton who is clearly not interested in bowling anymore. offer them contracts. u never know. I hope Taibu is working on this.

Moor has 2 ODI 50's actually .....

Also his first class stats are decent and has 2 test 50's also .....

Main point I was making anytime a white dude returns or leaves he gets hammered and accused of everything that Mire did but no one ever called Solo out ??

He left Zimbabwe and only returned for a cash grab from the WC and to try and score some overseas gigs ......

I don't think anyone should be blamed for leaving Zimbabwean cricket. If they're good enough to play internationally what's the problem? What can they expect at home? Mal-administration, late pay cheques, sub-standard facilities, sub-standard wages, a limited social life and a thorough hiding every time they turn out for their country - even from Bangladesh and Afghanistan!

Nope. The players didn't create this mess, the politicians did! Them and their lackeys and money grabbing political appointees at Zimbabwe Cricket have destroyed us. The players aren't the cause of the problem here.