Graeme Cremer vs Prosper Utseya in victories

[eugene]

Graeme Cremer
1 Test victory from 17 played
Batting average 41.50
Bowling average 1.00

29 ODI victories from 81 played
Batting average 28.33
Bowling average 19.85

7T20 victories from 27 played
Batting average 3.00
Bowling average 10.76


Prosper Utseya
1 test victory from 4 played
Batting average 13.50
Bowling average 51.50

45 ODI victories from 164 played
Batting average 30.48
Bowling average 28.14

7 T20 victories from 35 played
Batting average 0.50
Bowling average 17.77

Statistically, Cremer has been the superior bowler head-to-head with Utseya in victories in every format. Cremer's additional usefulness with the bat in victories show that he is someone who steps up to play match-winning knocks when necessary. Utseya has been a solid performer no-doubt, but the theory that Cremer has contributed nothing in victories is a fairytale.

[TapsC]

I feel like the hate utseya is getting isnt fair. He was called eventually yes but we cant discount his efforts. Both fantastic players in their prime in my opinion. And it does look prosper was actually involved in a lot of victories.

[eugene]

I feel like the hate utseya is getting isnt fair. He was called eventually yes but we cant discount his efforts. Both fantastic players in their prime in my opinion. And it does look prosper was actually involved in a lot of victories.

Agreed, nowhere have I discounted Utseya's victories, this thread is in response to the unreasonable hate Cremer has been unattracting which can be easily disproved by statistics.

[pariah]

Since 1 April 2004

IN LOSSES AND VICTORIES
vs Everyone Tests
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Top 8 Tests
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Everyone ODIs
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Top 8 ODIs
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Everyone T20Is
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Top 8 T20Is
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

NOTES:
Cremer only ahead of Utseya in T20Is. Generally, everyone is ahead of Cremer against proper sides.




IN VICTORIES
vs Everyone Tests
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Top 8 Tests
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Everyone ODIs
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Top 8 ODIs
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Everyone T20Is
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

vs Top 8 T20Is
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

NOTES:
1.Cremer has never won a Test against a Top 8 side.
2.Utseya has most wickets for Zimbabwe in ODI victories against Top 8 sides.
3.Once again, the only format in which Cremer eclipses Utseya against the top 8 is T20Is!


Overall, Cremer is just a minnow-basher!

[pariah]

I feel like the hate utseya is getting isnt fair. He was called eventually yes but we cant discount his efforts. Both fantastic players in their prime in my opinion. And it does look prosper was actually involved in a lot of victories.

Agreed, nowhere have I discounted Utseya's victories, this thread is in response to the unreasonable hate Cremer has been unattracting which can be easily disproved by statistics.

Disprove what?

Several Zimbabwean bowlers are ahead of Cremer in Tests and ODIs.

Cremer is extremely overrated!!! You will never find a player cushioned and pampered as much as Cremer, and still have poor stats!

He is anything but a match-winner! That's what the stats prove beyond reasonable doubt.

My anger is precisely because he is given an automatic XI spot when he does not deserve it in anyway shape or form. ZIM will achieve nothing with Cremer as lead spinner!

[pariah]

If you look closely, you'll notice that across formats, Cremer's stats are almost double worse against the traditional top 8 than they are when minnows are included.

I don't think there's another player as bad as he is.

For the seamers you'll notice that they bowl upfront, at the death and a few in the power-plays.

Cremer has almost no excuse because he almost never bowls upfront, at the death and during power-plays. Does anyone on this forum even remember when Cremer has ever done that?

All the more reason why his stats are even worse than they look when you consider just how much he has been pampered throughout his career!

[reverbinstinct]

Well,this is an upshot i didn't expect.Last thing some of us wanted was a player vs player comparison.As zimdoggy said,there is really no need to come up with posts that needs to allude to the rants of a particular individual. At the end of the day,no matter what he thinks ain't going influence the selections or tarnish players' legit feats.

We all know how much cremer currently brings to the table right now,so there is zilch basis trying to prove or coax the pariah when he is firm on his stance and too proud to acknowledge that cremer has indeed immensely improved from the days which lead to his inflated bowling average and so deserves the backing to scale greater heights, We also have to acknowledge utseya's contributions and services to our victories and also stop referring him as a 'cheat' at every chance possible.

[eugene]

Both Utseya and Cremer are good players. Utseya's career however is over, while Cremer is hitting his stride and taking wickets for fun in international cricket.

[Googly]

Never has there been a player more unjustifiably looked after during his playing career nor after it than Prosper, even his forged coaching certificates have been overlooked. Let’s not forget his hand in ensuring that the Players’ Union remained toothless. What’s happened to that Union, I wonder? It might be worth having another bash at resurrecting it. How can you have an entire cricket system where only a small handful of players make a living from the game, yet dozens of administrators and hangers on benefit mightily??

[aydee]

I feel like the hate utseya is getting isnt fair. He was called eventually yes but we cant discount his efforts. Both fantastic players in their prime in my opinion. And it does look prosper was actually involved in a lot of victories.

He had also put in some of the best performances of his career right before he was banned. The SA hat trick, and the six off Starc.