State of SA

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TapsC2
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Re: State of SA

Post by TapsC2 »

slcricfan1 wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:16 am
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sjn- ... ys-1274388

so these guys werent entirely wrong?
Well Boucher is still in the system so he had no choice. For me the most damning account is from Ashwell Prince who was a great player himself. Imagine Ashwell Prince being called a quota player. A man who averaged 40 in tests with 11 hundreds to his name

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espncr ... atform=amp

The truth these racial issues have created deep divisions and unfortunately a lot of the people who are being called out here clearly did not handle certain situations well.

Diplomacy is key. You have to compromise and find solutions. Even here in Zimbabwe we had similar issues. You have to think certain issues through.

For example people here don't see anything wrong with AB de Villiers personally picking Elgar (who was not in the ODI squad) for a match over Khaya Zondo. Threatening to walk out of the tour. That's the lack of diplomacy I'm talking about and how things end up escalating because you just can't see the bigger picture. So what if SA had lost the series? If this story had come out when it actually happened there would have been serious consequences for CSA and backlash from the GVT. All over 1 game

sloandog
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Re: State of SA

Post by sloandog »

Boeta Dippenar was a renowned racist in that dressing room, closely followed by Andrew Hall. I know the former came from a farming background and had a major chip on his shoulder about land and the black population taking over. The early 2000's were notoriously toxic in that dressing room. Henry Olonga even mentioned it in his book that what ever was going on in the ZC dressing room, it was amplified by 10 in the South African dressing room.

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zimbos_05
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Re: State of SA

Post by zimbos_05 »

I don't think these issues had in Zim to the extent that they happened in SA.

The thing with SA too was that it's a two way street. Black players were not being treated as well, but there was also a lot of animosity from black leaders and administrators towards the white players.

Forced quotas for example are still an issue today and cost SA in that World Cup semi.

I think this problem will continue to persist because there is always someone on either side who is not happy with something and trying to even the odds.

TapsC2
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Re: State of SA

Post by TapsC2 »

zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:28 am
I don't think these issues had in Zim to the extent that they happened in SA.

The thing with SA too was that it's a two way street. Black players were not being treated as well, but there was also a lot of animosity from black leaders and administrators towards the white players.

Forced quotas for example are still an issue today and cost SA in that World Cup semi.

I think this problem will continue to persist because there is always someone on either side who is not happy with something and trying to even the odds.
You are right. It is a vicous cycle but there is a reason I picked Ashwell Prince's account. He isn't black and he mentioned how his wife is Indian and he took offence to some derogatory words they were using to describe Indians of South African decent. That just shows how insensitive they were

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zimbos_05
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Re: State of SA

Post by zimbos_05 »

TapsC2 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:28 am


You are right. It is a vicous cycle but there is a reason I picked Ashwell Prince's account. He isn't black and he mentioned how his wife is Indian and he took offence to some derogatory words they were using to describe Indians of South African decent. That just shows how insensitive they were
Not disagreeing, but Indians in South Africa are hated on both sides by a lot of people for two reasons.

1) Hated by the whites because they were seen as black during apartheid and supporting Mandela particularly through Kathrada.
2) Hated by the blacks because they are now seen as the business men who are wealthy and making all the big deals, and leaving the black guys behind.

slcricfan1
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Re: State of SA

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CrimsonAvenger
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Re: State of SA

Post by CrimsonAvenger »

I loved that the author highlighted this part here:
But for a long time there was undeniably something of the bully about him, captured note perfect in this sledging of Tatenda Taibu in a hopelessly mismatched Test against Zimbabwe in March 2005.

"That's a big shot, Tatenda," he chirped as Taibu gently drove one to a short cover.

"You wanna get out now because I think you might be averaging single figures on this tour," before a pause, and some mocking magnanimity: "I'll walk you to the changing room as well."

He then asked Taibu whether his average was 9 or 10 before deciding "maybe 9.5 so we'll give you 10".

The substance itself was not offensive, but the idea that sledging that Zimbabwe side served any useful purpose was very Cobra Kai. Taibu was leading a desperately weakened Zimbabwe, about to slide to a second three-day innings defeat. Moreover, Boucher was part of a South Africa side that, at that point, was not nearly as good as it thought it was. It was no contest, was never going to be, and here was Boucher sticking it into men defeated long before they stepped on to the field. Say what you want about karma, but Taibu and Boucher retired from Tests on the same day and Taibu ended with a batting average 0.01 higher than Boucher's (30.31 to 30.30).
Still very clearly remember that pointless sledge.

If anyone is looking for a classy way even in sledging, what Sanga did to Shaun Pollock in 2003 CWC stands out :lol: :lol: :lol:

slcricfan1
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Re: State of SA

Post by slcricfan1 »


sloandog
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Re: State of SA

Post by sloandog »

Boucher used to have people carrying his kit for him I heard as well. He was a real entitled prick in his youth, not so much now

Zimco
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Re: State of SA

Post by Zimco »

zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:32 am
TapsC2 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:28 am


You are right. It is a vicous cycle but there is a reason I picked Ashwell Prince's account. He isn't black and he mentioned how his wife is Indian and he took offence to some derogatory words they were using to describe Indians of South African decent. That just shows how insensitive they were
Not disagreeing, but Indians in South Africa are hated on both sides by a lot of people for two reasons.

1) Hated by the whites because they were seen as black during apartheid and supporting Mandela particularly through Kathrada.
2) Hated by the blacks because they are now seen as the business men who are wealthy and making all the big deals, and leaving the black guys behind.
zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:32 am
TapsC2 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:28 am


You are right. It is a vicous cycle but there is a reason I picked Ashwell Prince's account. He isn't black and he mentioned how his wife is Indian and he took offence to some derogatory words they were using to describe Indians of South African decent. That just shows how insensitive they were
Not disagreeing, but Indians in South Africa are hated on both sides by a lot of people for two reasons.

1) Hated by the whites because they were seen as black during apartheid and supporting Mandela particularly through Kathrada.
2) Hated by the blacks because they are now seen as the business men who are wealthy and making all the big deals, and leaving the black guys behind.
Both seem like petty/silly reasons. The fact is Indians will leave South Africa and SA will be worse off for it. It wouldn't be the first time Indians/other minorities have fled Africa

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