How come Namibia doesn't have a quota but Zim/SA have?

[sloandog]

In 2003 Namibia had a poor side, how can you say they have a strong selection base? Snyman I'll admit was a serious player and bowled some quick spells in his youth. JB Burger and perhaps Dan Keulde were the only batters of note, the rest were poor. Since then Namibia have produced a lot of exciting talent and are 5 times the team they were back in 2003.
The late Raymond Van Schoor was a serious talent before he passed.

[secretzimbo]

There's no official quota in ZC. As others have said, there isn't even 11 white professional cricketers in Zim anyway currently, so theres no need. If there was a sudden flood of top level white cricketers, would we then see a quota? Sure, probably. But blacks dominate the game of cricket in Zimbabwe at all levels now, arguably unlike SA and definitely unlike Nam. That's a good thing, btw. Zim would be absolutely fucked if the game was limited to the about 20,000 white residents, and if Nam have a real plan for the future and any sense, they'd be making similar efforts at grassroots levels.

I hate quotas but in context it would at least in theory be more justified than in SA/Nam. Remember whites make up about 9% of the SA population and about 6% in Namibia. It's well under 1% in Zim nowadays.

But preferably as a country we just get on with it and don't see colour. Zimbabwe the country and ZC itself are at least better than it was 10/15/20 years ago in terms of race harmony, so thats something I suppose.

[ZIMDOGGY]

One thing I have noticed, and I find it amusing, is the self hatred a lot of black Zimbabweans have now.
There seems to be a narrative away from ‘the colonialists screwed us’ to ‘blacks are fucked, bring back whites’ alll over the socials.

Btw, when I say I find it amusing, I mean in terms of some of the calls I’ve seen. A lot of guys fighting online and calling each other baboons and all sort of race insults and all that between themselves. Sometimes I see a white guy step in to tell them to stop being racist. It is all just.... different.
Obviously there is a concern if they feel worthless but I also assume alot of them are half joking in anger.

[TapsC2]

One thing I have noticed, and I find it amusing, is the self hatred a lot of black Zimbabweans have now.
There seems to be a narrative away from ‘the colonialists screwed us’ to ‘blacks are fucked, bring back whites’ alll over the socials.

Btw, when I say I find it amusing, I mean in terms of some of the calls I’ve seen. A lot of guys fighting online and calling each other baboons and all sort of race insults and all that between themselves. Sometimes I see a white guy step in to tell them to stop being racist. It is all just.... different.
Obviously there is a concern if they feel worthless but I also assume alot of them are half joking in anger.

That is mainly a Zimbabwean thing. I guess we are still relatively new to the diaspora life. You don’t see Nigerians trash talking their country daily like Zimbabweans do. There is a strong complainer mentality . 70% of the people complaining didn’t even bother to vote

[sam_ahm]

Very good posts Tapsc.

ZC I think has done a pretty good job ever since Zimbabwe's suspension got lifted, and I'm saying this as a neutral. Problem for Zimbabwe is that most of the talented players don't see enough money in Zimbabwe and want to move to England or pursue a different career. I just hope this trend is stopped.

I'm not OK with quota system in RSA, but I feel even with the Quota South Africa will still be a force. I'm dead sure about this. Moreover now there are more and more good colored players coming through for RSA which is a good sign.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Very good posts Tapsc.

ZC I think has done a pretty good job ever since Zimbabwe's suspension got lifted, and I'm saying this as a neutral. Problem for Zimbabwe is that most of the talented players don't see enough money in Zimbabwe and want to move to England or pursue a different career. I just hope this trend is stopped.

I'm not OK with quota system in RSA, but I feel even with the Quota South Africa will still be a force. I'm dead sure about this. Moreover now there are more and more good colored players coming through for RSA which is a good sign.

But a lot of that is cause and effect.
ZC don’t bother with juniors. They leave it up to richer fathers to sponsor their kids. They do the bare minimum organising games, paying themselves highly in the process, leaving no money for players and have both pissed off and not courted sponsorship. There is claims of racism in the club scene.
It all has a bunch of moving parts that have made slot of white kids go f* it.
Just because they haven’t done any outwardly truly dumb public shit lately (this is how low the bar is) doesn’t mean they have acted well.

ZC management don’t have passionate peopel uo the top with the heart in the right place. They want the cash and rely on volunteers in the lower leagues to keep it going. After all, it’s sport, so there will always be enthusiasm for the game from some.

[zimbos_05]

I actually think if you are white it works in your favour these days because you stand out. Think about it. How many seasons did Nyauchi have to play to get picked? On the other hand people are already asking about Odendaal and Evans. Masuku has been bowling well for years.

Another example is Liam Roche. The truth is that guy was nowhere near national team standard but he was given a chance. How many years has Mufudza been bowling in the system?

Back in the day a young black talent was automatically picked. These days I think it’s the other way round simply because they aren’t enough white guys in the system. Same case with Akram. He just stands out. It’s human nature

I don't think it does work in their favour. Look at how the likes of Cremer, Taylor, even Raza have been punished for actually demanding better conditions and such, but certain black players haven't been punished in the same manner. The question on Nyauchi though is that there wasn't a white player keeping him out. Jarvis was the only white seam bowler, and he was away for some time too, so it's not like they were picking a white bowler instead of him.

Roche was picked in a team that had no options. It was after another dispute and players were punished for it. So they basically picked anyone they could. In saying that, look at the treatment of Murray since.

Also, lets not forget how often the racism card has been brought up by certain individuals, over some really bizarre things and without evidence, and now those individuals are in positions of control and get away when they mess up.

There's no official quota in ZC. As others have said, there isn't even 11 white professional cricketers in Zim anyway currently, so theres no need. If there was a sudden flood of top level white cricketers, would we then see a quota? Sure, probably. But blacks dominate the game of cricket in Zimbabwe at all levels now, arguably unlike SA and definitely unlike Nam. That's a good thing, btw. Zim would be absolutely fucked if the game was limited to the about 20,000 white residents, and if Nam have a real plan for the future and any sense, they'd be making similar efforts at grassroots levels.

People forget that even when ZC was predominantly white, the white population was not amazingly high. It was not as if white people were overflowing all over the place. It was just that cricket was the sport the white people invested in. They took an interest in it and basically went all in 100%. They were not playing football. Some were playing rugby, and you had the Black brothers in tennis, but other than that, Cricket was the sport (of all the mainstream) that they were invested in.

So it was not as if they had a huge talent pool then too. Some of the guys who got selected for International cricket had averages of 20 as a batsman. They were getting selected, but ZC was improving as was proven by 02/03 when most of, if not all the batters in that team had averages in the 30s.

[jaybro]

Don't think you can say that with certainty Taps. ZC definitely has something in place and there have definitely been instances in the past where race has been at the forefront when it comes to team selection, or team issues.

I actually think if you are white it works in your favour these days because you stand out. Think about it. How many seasons did Nyauchi have to play to get picked? On the other hand people are already asking about Odendaal and Evans. Masuku has been bowling well for years.

Another example is Liam Roche. The truth is that guy was nowhere near national team standard but he was given a chance. How many years has Mufudza been bowling in the system?

Back in the day a young black talent was automatically picked. These days I think it’s the other way round simply because they aren’t enough white guys in the system. Same case with Akram. He just stands out. It’s human nature

100% correct

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Few of the African nations have qouta system on black white issue in their respective grounds which is quite similar to Reservation, here in India through caste system, society is divided into 4 groups Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes, Other Backward Class & Generals where Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes, Other Backward Class enjoys some facilities like making payment less amounts to the government, relaxation in govt jobs, receiving more government facilities which happens without monitoring their economic condition from generation to generation, and Generals are the sufferers.

But the only difference is there is no reservation in sports in india, the best guys or the talented ones are rewarded for their skills, efforts and hard work.

Qouta reservation can be harsh as anyone on doing well can be termed as the person have taken advantage of qouta or on non performing can be blamed as their spot booked based on qouta

[ZIMDOGGY]

People forget that even when ZC was predominantly white, the white population was not amazingly high. It was not as if white people were overflowing all over the place. It was just that cricket was the sport the white people invested in. They took an interest in it and basically went all in 100%. They were not playing football. Some were playing rugby, and you had the Black brothers in tennis, but other than that, Cricket was the sport (of all the mainstream) that they were invested in.

So it was not as if they had a huge talent pool then too. Some of the guys who got selected for International cricket had averages of 20 as a batsman. They were getting selected, but ZC was improving as was proven by 02/03 when most of, if not all the batters in that team had averages in the 30s.

From what I can recall.
White pop. today is around 20k
15 years ago was 40k.
2000 was about 60k
2003 about 45k.

There would also be a few expats floating around who are back to zim to visit family, so it might appear higher in the summer for instance.
just general observations I tried to take note of at the time.

It feels like there are more. You meet white zimbabwean tourists in Europe, you see them pop up in business and sport, everyday i see new people with 'harare' in their location, Sam Levy just looks like a shopping centre in a white country, but im assured thats it.

What is basically happening is whites have consolidated in north Harare, as opposed to being pretty spread out as they were 20+ years back.

Googly once told me there is only about 100 or so whites left in Bulawayo


These are all ridiculously low numbers. An average rural town in Australia, a bigger than average rural town 20 years nack.