2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

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Rajkumar Sharma
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Richard Ngarava will be a match winner for Zimbabwe if he learns this art of bowling. Once Zimbabwe had Brian Vitori pioneer of bowling this delivery
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TapsC2
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by TapsC2 »

All these guys being good enough to play county but not good enough for England will work in our favour one day. Watch this space. They all saw the contracts BT and Jarvis got and the lumpsums they got. They all have this information. Remember the same management I'm taking about back then is the same that failed to give Sean Ervine a payment that he requested to come back. The guys in charge now were asked to do the same for BT and Jarvis and they did. Things are slightly different.

The ideal situation for any young talent now is to try crack an international system, shine there then have all the bargaining power

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zimbos_05
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by zimbos_05 »

TapsC2 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:43 am
The problem we are seeing here is that there is a whole 3 or 4 generations of u19s who struggled to produce any real world class talent. From 2010 to 2014. Those guys have really failed to step up. That is What we are seeing now. Things were very bad then in terms of ZC management and its there to see now. This is why people have more faith in Madhevere than Musakanda for example.

This is all going to change because the last batch of guys had the batsmen with potential and it just happens that the 2016 batch had some bowlers. Blessing didn't even make that squad which had Matigimu, Ngarava and Mashinge. Mix that with a couple of imports (which will happen) and you will find that we are no worse than where we are now. The chances of Dane, Welch, Muyeye and Byrom all playing for England along with all the Currans at the same time is almost zero. At least 3 of those guys (im suspecting Welch, Dane and Ben) will have to make an international career with us if they want one. Add Myers,Shumba, Bawa , Burl, Tari and Welsey to those 3 and we just at the same level at least in 5 years time
I might be confused but are you suggesting that things will not improve and that we will just stagnate for the next 5 years even with the talent we have that everyone on this forum is raving about, and with imports coming back?

Because if thats the case, then why are we wasting our time. Let's get rid of the set up an start new with people who will actually improve us over the 5 year period.

TapsC2
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by TapsC2 »

zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 5:04 am
TapsC2 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:43 am
The problem we are seeing here is that there is a whole 3 or 4 generations of u19s who struggled to produce any real world class talent. From 2010 to 2014. Those guys have really failed to step up. That is What we are seeing now. Things were very bad then in terms of ZC management and its there to see now. This is why people have more faith in Madhevere than Musakanda for example.

This is all going to change because the last batch of guys had the batsmen with potential and it just happens that the 2016 batch had some bowlers. Blessing didn't even make that squad which had Matigimu, Ngarava and Mashinge. Mix that with a couple of imports (which will happen) and you will find that we are no worse than where we are now. The chances of Dane, Welch, Muyeye and Byrom all playing for England along with all the Currans at the same time is almost zero. At least 3 of those guys (im suspecting Welch, Dane and Ben) will have to make an international career with us if they want one. Add Myers,Shumba, Bawa , Burl, Tari and Welsey to those 3 and we just at the same level at least in 5 years time
I might be confused but are you suggesting that things will not improve and that we will just stagnate for the next 5 years even with the talent we have that everyone on this forum is raving about, and with imports coming back?

Because if thats the case, then why are we wasting our time. Let's get rid of the set up an start new with people who will actually improve us over the 5 year period.
What I’m saying is that there is no doomsday coming like what people are suggesting. At the very least we will be on the same level. I think we will actually get better because I don’t see Williams, Ervine and Raza retiring just yet.

TapsC2
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by TapsC2 »

Williams looks like he has just hit his prime

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zimbos_05
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by zimbos_05 »

TapsC2 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 5:29 am


What I’m saying is that there is no doomsday coming like what people are suggesting. At the very least we will be on the same level. I think we will actually get better because I don’t see Williams, Ervine and Raza retiring just yet.
We just got trounced by Pakistan (yes i know, injuries all that jazz...) and got beaten comfortably in the 2nd test by Afghanistan, who had players score freely might I add.

I think the current situation is not doomsday, but definitely not something to be comfortable or content about.

TapsC2
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by TapsC2 »

zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 7:09 am
TapsC2 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 5:29 am


What I’m saying is that there is no doomsday coming like what people are suggesting. At the very least we will be on the same level. I think we will actually get better because I don’t see Williams, Ervine and Raza retiring just yet.
We just got trounced by Pakistan (yes i know, injuries all that jazz...) and got beaten comfortably in the 2nd test by Afghanistan, who had players score freely might I add.

I think the current situation is not doomsday, but definitely not something to be comfortable or content about.
I get you. I’m just bringing out another perspective. Let me put it this way. Afghanistan without their star player and preparing the wrong pitch got beaten by Zimbabwe in 2 days. Rashid Khan comes back and puts in a shift of 99 overs and they win . This is how much star players mean to small teams. We are missing 3 of those guys in this format right now. Would we have beaten Pakistan? Nope. Would we have competed? Yes. That’s my point

TapsC2
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by TapsC2 »

4 key players if we include Jarvis. When Pakistan lost by an innings to NZ this year guess who was missing? Babar Azam. Not saying they would have won but he would have made a difference.

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zimbos_05
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by zimbos_05 »

TapsC2 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 7:48 am

I get you. I’m just bringing out another perspective. Let me put it this way. Afghanistan without their star player and preparing the wrong pitch got beaten by Zimbabwe in 2 days. Rashid Khan comes back and puts in a shift of 99 overs and they win . This is how much star players mean to small teams. We are missing 3 of those guys in this format right now. Would we have beaten Pakistan? Nope. Would we have competed? Yes. That’s my point
I get the perspective. I get we were missing key players. I get all that. I just don't buy this idea that we are on the right path or progressing as well as we should be. I was merely highlighting how far behind we are and missing those players and the way we played the series should be serving as massive massive wake up calls.

The likes of Wes and Shumba are not just magically going to develop in to world class players. We run the risk of them becoming players who had potential but just stagnated like so many before them.

Also, we got batted out of the Afghanistan test. Rashid Khan definitely played a part, but we were always behind the game after their first innings. Let's not pretend like we were going to get 600 plus even if they didn't have Rashid.

secretzimbo
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by secretzimbo »

zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 8:01 am

I get the perspective. I get we were missing key players. I get all that. I just don't buy this idea that we are on the right path or progressing as well as we should be.
Just to add, I’m not at all saying things are perfect, or that we are on the ‘right’ path or that we are progressing as good as we could.

But what I’m saying is that I’ve seen and heard enough here on the ground this season that suggests we are making small steps in the right direction.

I don’t think many would disagree that the talent is there currently. The U19s coming up are the best for a decade or so and people involved in the next batch are just as confident in them too.

I think we agree that management, coaching, governance etc are the things that we have struggled with for 16 years (and perhaps even longer in a way) and particularly the last 3 years I might add.

I’m being realistic and realising this is Zimbabwe. We can all dream of a cricketing (or other) revolution overnight but obviously it’s not going to happen. We could sit here for another twenty years talking about all the things that need to change but we’d be wasting our time. Yes I’d like 20 first class rounds a season, 10 tests a year, Andy Flower as head coach, players paid really good salaries, all overseas zimbos back, national academies, excellent coaches, clear pathways, club cricket like it was 25 years ago, etc etc etc. But in the real world....

Hammy has done a lot this season. They might not be big flashy obvious things especially to people outside the country. But they are small foundation steps. Unfortunately he isn’t going to be a revolutionary. I agree with your previous point about his inaction as a player and I have criticised him for years for that.

But in 6 months we’ve seen ZC put on (short) domestic comps in all three formats, late into the autumn, at great cost despite not being required to due to covid. Would Makoni & Mukuhlani have done that a year or two back if they had the excuse?
We’ve seen overseas zimbos invited en mass to return for the Logan cup. Only a couple came over but it’s a start and it’s a good idea.
We’ve seen the 5th franchise reintroduced - again at cost - to ensure there are chances for the U19’s
We’ve seen schools having their facilities fixed for the first time in several years and speaking to some teachers (I used to be one!), Hammy is getting the praise for personally driving it.
There has been governance changes - non cricketing people (some of them who have been there for years) have been removed from some of the regional boards and replaced with people who finally appear to give a fuck.
ZC have put in place formal communication channels with schools and clubs. A professionalisation of things.
The NPL again at great cost and with little revenue - it’s a good cricketing idea and hopefully we see it grow. Club cricket was pretty much the best thing about Zim cricket 20+ years ago.


I wish we could do more, I wish ZC were doing more. They really need to. But we’ve seen those small positive developments and I believe they are the beginnings of positive development. It’s going to be slow and small and yea that’s frustrating but it’s better than nothing and it’s better than recent times!

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