The Lost Talent Blues

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farhanhussan
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:28 am

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by farhanhussan »

sloandog wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:23 pm
The talent in Zimbabwe right now is exciting, but we're probably two years away, maybe even three, from truly seeing its full potential. That's why it is vitally important ZC has strong, clear dialogue between the senior guys in the side. They have to stay for another two seasons
No doubt but given the coaching, resources and standards of cricket as well as limited playing opportunities for these lads against high quility crickters would hinder the progress of these lads. These lads won't face 140 kmph bowling at all in domestic competetion, not the quality spinners.
Bowlers won't get batters who can bat for long time.
There comes the system where India austrillia can make players like kohli Sharma bumrah Cummins Steve Smith

ZIMDOGGY
Posts: 6646
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:40 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

farhanhussan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:12 pm
All is not lost. I saw Netherland cricket policy to allow county players of Netherland cirizenship representing the nation.
Why can't Zim do that, considering current economic conditions it's tough for any person to stay in Zim merely for cricketing opportunity. If some one is talented and showing some form he should be drafted into Zim national side without awarding him full time contract.
School cricket development is very necessary. Schools should be talked for playing sport even with tennis tape ball would help.
It’s not usually a zim thing. They plucked Mire from nowhere and enticed BT and Jarv back from England when they could have stayed.
Usually it’s been an issue for the other countries.
County for example, the ECB don’t like ‘leaches’ who come to play cricket and stifle the development of local players. They have their two foreign quota spots and that’s designed for world class talent. Outside of that it’s English only.
So when players have gone to England, it has to have been done with the view of representing warm beer and bangers and mash.
Otherwise they sousing have been allowed to play.

Also,
I don’t think it’s the most unreasonable thing for our national cricketers to commit to at least some franchise cricket locally.
The standard is in dire need of a lift. The gap between Williams and Ervine to anyone below them is huge. And they aren’t world beaters themselves.
Logan cup is simply club cricket elsewhere,
In Sydney, it’s not even Sydney metro first grade standard. It’s probably second grade.
I think it is reasonable to request to at least committing to half a season, and surely if the right player is interested taht will be negotiated.

Also remember that players parents and management warn against involving them with ZC. They have a history of problems and importantly, unpaid wages. Some wages have never been paid til this day.
And Zimbabwe at learns has made it clear to white peopel they aren’t welcome so I imagine many not only don’t want zim to succeed, but are loving the death of it.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

farhanhussan
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:28 am

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by farhanhussan »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:50 pm
farhanhussan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:12 pm
All is not lost. I saw Netherland cricket policy to allow county players of Netherland cirizenship representing the nation.
Why can't Zim do that, considering current economic conditions it's tough for any person to stay in Zim merely for cricketing opportunity. If some one is talented and showing some form he should be drafted into Zim national side without awarding him full time contract.
School cricket development is very necessary. Schools should be talked for playing sport even with tennis tape ball would help.
It’s not usually a zim thing. They plucked Mire from nowhere and enticed BT and Jarv back from England when they could have stayed.
Usually it’s been an issue for the other countries.
County for example, the ECB don’t like ‘leaches’ who come to play cricket and stifle the development of local players. They have their two foreign quota spots and that’s designed for world class talent. Outside of that it’s English only.
So when players have gone to England, it has to have been done with the view of representing warm beer and bangers and mash.
Otherwise they sousing have been allowed to play.

Also,
I don’t think it’s the most unreasonable thing for our national cricketers to commit to at least some franchise cricket locally.
The standard is in dire need of a lift. The gap between Williams and Ervine to anyone below them is huge. And they aren’t world beaters themselves.
Logan cup is simply club cricket elsewhere,
In Sydney, it’s not even Sydney metro first grade standard. It’s probably second grade.
I think it is reasonable to request to at least committing to half a season, and surely if the right player is interested taht will be negotiated.

Also remember that players parents and management warn against involving them with ZC. They have a history of problems and importantly, unpaid wages. Some wages have never been paid til this day.
And Zimbabwe at learns has made it clear to white peopel they aren’t welcome so I imagine many not only don’t want zim to succeed, but are loving the death of it.
thanks nice info.
It should have been more representation of whites in Zim cricket
management as the cricket legacy in Zim has been with white players.so game would have been in the better state. My guess is 95 % cricketing affairs are run by black management. Further with outflux of whites during Mugabe regime and farmers issues, I m not sure how many ex white cricketers are staying in Zim?Zim white population at present is estimated around 50k. Let's hope a positive change more of more white coaches in franchise teams as well as players with the ending if kolpak deal.

secretzimbo
Posts: 8689
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:08 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos
Location: Gweru

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by secretzimbo »

farhanhussan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:10 pm
thanks nice info.
It should have been more representation of whites in Zim cricket
management as the cricket legacy in Zim has been with white players.so game would have been in the better state. My guess is 95 % cricketing affairs are run by black management. Further with outflux of whites during Mugabe regime and farmers issues, I m not sure how many ex white cricketers are staying in Zim?Zim white population at present is estimated around 50k. Let's hope a positive change more of more white coaches in franchise teams as well as players with the ending if kolpak deal.
The white population is much lower than that now. At the moment we are about 20,000 or less. To put that in perspective its just over 0.1% of the country. About 17k of those are concentrated in 2 districts of Harare as well, so elsewhere in the country its an even more tiny percentage.

Kolpak isn't relevant. The only Zim cricketer to ever have a Kolpak deal was Blessing, who is black. Most of the white Zimbos didn't need Kolpak as they can get British passports (*or easy access to family visas) anyway (It's different in SA where a big proportion of the whites have Dutch or Afrikaner heritage rather than British. In Zim whites are overwhelmingly British heritage except for a few Greeks and others).

100% we need ZC to have a better relationship with the white community. We need to try to retain at least some of the big 4 in the system after they retire. We need to try and stop losing young white talent. All of that yep. Agree with it all.

But also we are seeing real high class black talent emerging, probably of better quality and in greater numbers than ever before in Zimbabwe. The country has changed and so ZC and the racial makeup of players is mirroring that. We need the best people in the game, and we need to retain them, regardless of skin colour.
Last edited by secretzimbo on Tue May 11, 2021 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zimco
Posts: 697
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:11 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by Zimco »

Not all white Zimbabweans of English origin can get English passports. Many go there on ancestry visas which i am not sure qualify someone for county any more.

Once a players gets UK citizenship, can they play straight away or do they have to have lived in the UK for 3 years?

Also does blessing have a child in the UK?

farhanhussan
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:28 am

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by farhanhussan »

secretzimbo wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:23 pm
The white population is much lower than that now. At the moment we are about 20,000 or less. To put that in perspective its just over 0.1% of the country. About 17k of those are concentrated in 2 districts of Harare as well, so elsewhere in the country its an even more tiny percentage.

Kolpak isn't relevant. The only Zim cricketer to ever have a Kolpak deal was Blessing, who is black. Most of the white Zimbos didn't need Kolpak as they can get British passports anyway (It's different in SA where a big proportion of the whites have Dutch or Afrikaner heritage rather than British. In Zim whites are overwhelmingly British heritage except for a few Greeks and others).

100% we need ZC to have a better relationship with the white community. We need to try to retain at least some of the big 4 in the system after they retire. We need to try and stop losing young white talent. All of that yep. Agree with it all.

But also we are seeing real high class black talent emerging, probably of better quality and in greater numbers than ever before in Zimbabwe. The country has changed and so ZC and the racial makeup of players is mirroring that. We need the best people in the game, and we need to retain them, regardless of skin colour.
[/quote] thanks about it.
What was my point coaches at franchises are not that good. I saw a t 20 match there was a bowler who bowled 5 or 6 full tosses in an over and again he was given over.
So at the highest domestic level u can't do that. Coaches need to improve.
I m not sure ZC relations with govt of Zim as they were having issues in the past. But they can talk about the 100 percent govt school having cricket as sport. Again it can be done with tennis tape ball. U would find 3 to 4 extra cricketers for national team through this system.

tej_27
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:14 am

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by tej_27 »

PieChucker wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:13 am
Was trying to think of all the guys who have buggered off to play in far lands and would be eligible to play for Zim...

Solomon Mire
Ryan Higgins
Shane Snater
Eddie Byrom
Nick Welch
PJ Moore
Colin De Grandhomme
Hilton Cartwright
Gary Balance
Ben Curran
Sam Curran Tom Curran
Jayden Schadendorf
Dane Schadendorf

who am I missing?
Tawanada muyeye

Bertus de Jong
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:09 pm

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by Bertus de Jong »

secretzimbo wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:47 am
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:17 am
There are way more.
Trawl through the last twenty years of under 19 teams for a good list.

Dusty Melton is an often overlooked one, as is Adam Rouse. Both in county. The latter instantly solves our keeping issues.

Does Scotland still have that Zimbabwean captain?
Rouse has retired unfortunately. Now running a business of some sort I believe.

Who is the Scottish Zim captain? They've had a few Saffers
Currrent Scotland captain Kyle Coetzer has a Saffer name but is very Scottish. He was born in Aberdeen and sounds it. His predecessor Preston Mommsen has a Scottish name but was born in Durban (and also sounds it) he's been retired a while now though.

ZIMFAN
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:20 am

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by ZIMFAN »

He might mean Ryan Watson

ZIMDOGGY
Posts: 6646
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:40 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: The Lost Talent Blues

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

secretzimbo wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:23 pm
farhanhussan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:10 pm
thanks nice info.
It should have been more representation of whites in Zim cricket
management as the cricket legacy in Zim has been with white players.so game would have been in the better state. My guess is 95 % cricketing affairs are run by black management. Further with outflux of whites during Mugabe regime and farmers issues, I m not sure how many ex white cricketers are staying in Zim?Zim white population at present is estimated around 50k. Let's hope a positive change more of more white coaches in franchise teams as well as players with the ending if kolpak deal.
The white population is much lower than that now. At the moment we are about 20,000 or less. To put that in perspective its just over 0.1% of the country. About 17k of those are concentrated in 2 districts of Harare as well, so elsewhere in the country its an even more tiny percentage.

Kolpak isn't relevant. The only Zim cricketer to ever have a Kolpak deal was Blessing, who is black. Most of the white Zimbos didn't need Kolpak as they can get British passports (*or easy access to family visas) anyway (It's different in SA where a big proportion of the whites have Dutch or Afrikaner heritage rather than British. In Zim whites are overwhelmingly British heritage except for a few Greeks and others).

100% we need ZC to have a better relationship with the white community. We need to try to retain at least some of the big 4 in the system after they retire. We need to try and stop losing young white talent. All of that yep. Agree with it all.

But also we are seeing real high class black talent emerging, probably of better quality and in greater numbers than ever before in Zimbabwe. The country has changed and so ZC and the racial makeup of players is mirroring that. We need the best people in the game, and we need to retain them, regardless of skin colour.
Most white zimbos under 30 cannot get an English or Irish visa at all.
They are too far removed from English lineage.
You need a parent born there to be an English ancestry visa holder, or a grandparent for Ireland.

It was spoken about a year ago where we looked into it further and we couldn’t find many of the kids that qualified.
Nick Welch for instance had a few issues and may have well been a black Ndebele.

BT I’m pretty sure is in this boat and was a kolpak player.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

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