Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

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Kriterion_BD
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Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by Kriterion_BD »

CholeZimbo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:58 pm
"Bangladesh have defeated Zimbabwe in 18 ODIs in a row." WTF, didn't know this
Last time Zimbabwe have gotten one over us is in Bulawayo 2013. We haven't lost in 8+ years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

Donald
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by Donald »

Have a feeling Zimbabwe will win tomorrow.

Misplaced and misguided faith but faith all the same 😂😂😂

jward
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Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by jward »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:50 pm
jward wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:07 pm
Quite right. I find it an unbelievable decision - surely anybody can see that Taylor had completely finished his stroke at the ball, especially with that wiggle of the bat in between. It may well have cost us the match.
I think the reasoning was that although he had *finished* his stroke in terms of intent, the physical act of the bat swing never stopped. It went from attempted ramp continously onto the stumps. For me this was 50-50, I would have been satisfied if they ruled dead ball and not out.

Good appeal by BD, arguably debatable decision from the umpires.
Very flimsy ground to judge it on, if so; it was a completely different motion of the bat.

slcricfan1
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Location: Sydney

Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by slcricfan1 »

TapsC2 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:23 am
zimbos_05 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:55 am
TapsC2 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:26 am
The BT decision was also harsh and cost us maybe 40 runs. Our own guys never ever have our backs but also at the same time with all his experience BT should have never found himself in that position.
What position? It was a freak accident. Not like he was deep in his crease and stepped back to play a shot. How can you blame BT for it.
He shouldn't be hitting his wicket with his follow through in the first place. Practicing or not. That's all I'm saying. Basic training that all coaches from junior level stress about. It was an accident yes and he should not have been given out according to most people's interpretation of the laws.

Had that been Maruma you would have understood what I'm saying better. I also think he almost hit his wicket earlier too

The person I'm upset with over the incident is Langton Rusere. He should have done better but our own umpires have a history of being harsh on their own guys, even in domestic games
guys new, wouldnt be too harsh on him

jward
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Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by jward »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:50 pm
jward wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:07 pm
Quite right. I find it an unbelievable decision - surely anybody can see that Taylor had completely finished his stroke at the ball, especially with that wiggle of the bat in between. It may well have cost us the match.
I think the reasoning was that although he had *finished* his stroke in terms of intent, the physical act of the bat swing never stopped. It went from attempted ramp continously onto the stumps. For me this was 50-50, I would have been satisfied if they ruled dead ball and not out.

Good appeal by BD, arguably debatable decision from the umpires.
If that's the reasoning, it really is ridiculous and illogical to my mind; the actual swing at the ball should be what counts. If he had swung his bat three times behind him, even ten times without stopping and knocked the wicket the final time, would that still be out? That surely is not the purpose of the law; common sense should prevail if there is any doubt.

jward
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Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by jward »

jward wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:51 pm
Kriterion_BD wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:50 pm
jward wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:07 pm
Quite right. I find it an unbelievable decision - surely anybody can see that Taylor had completely finished his stroke at the ball, especially with that wiggle of the bat in between. It may well have cost us the match.
I think the reasoning was that although he had *finished* his stroke in terms of intent, the physical act of the bat swing never stopped. It went from attempted ramp continously onto the stumps. For me this was 50-50, I would have been satisfied if they ruled dead ball and not out.

Good appeal by BD, arguably debatable decision from the umpires.
If that's the reasoning, it really is ridiculous and illogical to my mind; the actual swing at the ball should be what counts. If he had swung his bat three times behind him, even ten times without stopping and knocked the wicket the final time, would that still be out? That surely is not the purpose of the law; common sense should prevail if there is any doubt.
By the way, referring back to the Mark Waugh hit-wicket appeal in the Test against South Africa; I support South Africa, but after looking carefully at that replay I decided reluctantly that the umpire was right in giving him not out, and it was a much closer thing than the Taylor case.

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 7035
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jward wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:51 pm


If that's the reasoning, it really is ridiculous and illogical to my mind; the actual swing at the ball should be what counts. If he had swung his bat three times behind him, even ten times without stopping and knocked the wicket the final time, would that still be out? That surely is not the purpose of the law; common sense should prevail if there is any doubt.
You're right: common sense should have prevailed and Taylor could have been ruled not out. Key word, could. Now if I am aware of the rules correctly, this is my understanding of the issue:

Now swinging the bat 10 times is a mistaken example because a) it would never happen in real life and b) time elapsed is also a critical factor in addition to the bat swing being 1 continuous motion. In the amount of time it takes to swing the bat 10 times, a bowler would have been halfway through his run up for the next ball ie clearly a dead ball in that situation. As another example, what would have happened if instead of hitting the stumps, Taylor was out his crease and the WK threw down the stumps? Would that be a run out? I think so. That means that the ball resting in the fielder/WK hands is only the marker of a dead ball IF both batsmen have ALSO completed their batting/running actions.

In this case, it was a dead ball from the perspective of the ball resting in the hands of the WK. But it was not dead because both batters hadn't stopped moving yet. Yes Taylor may have assumed or thought the ball was dead, but that doesn't mean the umpire has to agree.

Had he not been given out, I would have supported the decision.

Dharmasena's decision in the WC final where he counted one boundary extra was actually technically a wrong decision, albeit one that is very difficult to adjudge correctly on the field in real time. However the Taylor hit wicket was one of those rare instances where both decisions were correct, depending on the umpire's interpretation IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

jward
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Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by jward »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:52 pm
jward wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:51 pm


If that's the reasoning, it really is ridiculous and illogical to my mind; the actual swing at the ball should be what counts. If he had swung his bat three times behind him, even ten times without stopping and knocked the wicket the final time, would that still be out? That surely is not the purpose of the law; common sense should prevail if there is any doubt.
You're right: common sense should have prevailed and Taylor could have been ruled not out. Key word, could. Now if I am aware of the rules correctly, this is my understanding of the issue:

Now swinging the bat 10 times is a mistaken example because a) it would never happen in real life and b) time elapsed is also a critical factor in addition to the bat swing being 1 continuous motion. In the amount of time it takes to swing the bat 10 times, a bowler would have been halfway through his run up for the next ball ie clearly a dead ball in that situation. As another example, what would have happened if instead of hitting the stumps, Taylor was out his crease and the WK threw down the stumps? Would that be a run out? I think so. That means that the ball resting in the fielder/WK hands is only the marker of a dead ball IF both batsmen have ALSO completed their batting/running actions.

In this case, it was a dead ball from the perspective of the ball resting in the hands of the WK. But it was not dead because both batters hadn't stopped moving yet. Yes Taylor may have assumed or thought the ball was dead, but that doesn't mean the umpire has to agree.

Had he not been given out, I would have supported the decision.

Dharmasena's decision in the WC final where he counted one boundary extra was actually technically a wrong decision, albeit one that is very difficult to adjudge correctly on the field in real time. However the Taylor hit wicket was one of those rare instances where both decisions were correct, depending on the umpire's interpretation IMO.
Not so much a dead ball as a dead stroke! He had completely finished his action of playing at the ball, which is the intention of the law. But let's not waste any more time going into minute details, such as how many swings of the bat does it have to be before it is considered not out - that's my position.

Zimco
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Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by Zimco »

Sorry unrelated to Zim but where can I watch ban v aus from Australia? Anyone have a link?

slcricfan1
Posts: 1563
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Second ODI Zimbabwe Vs Bangladesh

Post by slcricfan1 »

Zimco wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:08 pm
Sorry unrelated to Zim but where can I watch ban v aus from Australia? Anyone have a link?
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/bang ... rs-1271890


https://stream.crichd.ac/willow-cricket ... ream-hd-17

you can try find it here but the ads are a real pain. CHeck the chat on the right for a link if you cant find

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