When was the last time...

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Kriterion_BD
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by Kriterion_BD »

secretzimbo wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:31 am
We lost the series. Our highly paid highly talented players didn’t play - for no reason.

I hope whoever made that decision is punished and loses their job.
Not for no reason. They were giving the Young 4 much needed experience AND giving the BIg 4 a rest. Besides you were definitely part of the crew that was hyping up guys like Marumani...if the guy is [that] good, you play him. End of story. You can't claim to have the next QdK or Tamim in the lineup and then complain when management actually believes you and plays him. Had it been the other way around, quite a lot of people would have shouted "We've got a kid like Marumani who can belt the ball to Iceland, and we're risking the Big 4 getting injured." I've been here for 12 years, I know how green the grass always is on the other side.

You know that at 34+ all of the Big 4 are injury prone, and Taylor especially is not in prime shape. Williams, Ervine, and Raza may be fit as a fiddle but they have all had injuries and niggles here and there. Why risk for a zero stakes series? You'd have a point if they were also rested for the Super League games.
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secretzimbo
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by secretzimbo »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:20 pm
secretzimbo wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:31 am
We lost the series. Our highly paid highly talented players didn’t play - for no reason.

I hope whoever made that decision is punished and loses their job.
Not for no reason. They were giving the Young 4 much needed experience AND giving the BIg 4 a rest. Besides you were definitely part of the crew that was hyping up guys like Marumani...if the guy is [that] good, you play him. End of story. You can't claim to have the next QdK or Tamim in the lineup and then complain when management actually believes you and plays him. Had it been the other way around, quite a lot of people would have shouted "We've got a kid like Marumani who can belt the ball to Iceland, and we're risking the Big 4 getting injured." I've been here for 12 years, I know how green the grass always is on the other side.

You know that at 34+ all of the Big 4 are injury prone, and Taylor especially is not in prime shape. Williams, Ervine, and Raza may be fit as a fiddle but they have all had injuries and niggles here and there. Why risk for a zero stakes series? You'd have a point if they were also rested for the Super League games.
I think all of the new four are huge talents with a lot of potential. As I and many other people have said on many threads though, theres no way we should be fielding ALL four of them in EVERY match despite at least three of them being out of form and out of their depths at times. That's terrible management, not just bad management of the team but bad management of the individuals. Marumani's entire game is based on confidence. What a great fucking way to destroy that.

As quite a lot of us have said, we're be pleased to see the kids getting some opportunities. But they have to fight for their place like anyone else and if they are performing poorly after a few games then they should lose their place. Winning matters. Yes winning the ODIs is the most important but if the big four can't play a couple of T20's as well then they aren't fit enough to be professional cricketers and we shouldn't be paying someone like BT hundreds of thousands of dollars a year just to play the occasional ODI lol. It's not like our schedule is packed like England's is it?! We've already had 1 senior guy (try to) announce his retirement because of bizarre coaching and management decisions. Do you think BT & Raza are happy with how they were treated last week? Would we be surprised if they called it a day based on these ridiculous decisions too?

Having three of your best 21st century players all sitting on the bench and earning very very big contracts to do so is criminal.

As said elsewhere, I think you are looking at it from a more objective view from outside Zim. You may be right from that perspective so good for you. But as a Zimbabwean who wants to see my team win every match and every series - not just some matches - then I think it was a terrible 'strategy' to play all four youngsters in every single match. Vast majority of Zimbos I've seen online or spoke to irl seem to agree. Lots of people were very angry last week, including journos who are usually pro-ZC.

zimfan1
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by zimfan1 »

Raza will step away after the series I reckon.

Kriterion_BD
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by Kriterion_BD »

secretzimbo wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:36 pm


Having three of your best 21st century players all sitting on the bench and earning very very big contracts to do so is criminal.

As said elsewhere, I think you are looking at it from a more objective view from outside Zim. You may be right from that perspective so good for you. But as a Zimbabwean who wants to see my team win every match and every series - not just some matches - then I think it was a terrible 'strategy' to play all four youngsters in every single match. Vast majority of Zimbos I've seen online or spoke to irl seem to agree. Lots of people were very angry last week, including journos who are usually pro-ZC.
I'm not saying you're completely wrong. I'm not saying play the Young 4 in every game, ever format - unless they back it up with performance.

But if you aren't willing to risk/expose/play them in the least important format against an 11th ranked side, then where and when would you play them?

Its very obvious ZC want the Big 4 to play all ODIs and Tests.
Do you think BT & Raza are happy with how they were treated last week? Would we be surprised if they called it a day based on these ridiculous decisions too?
How do we know it wasn't their idea to begin with? Or that they weren't cool with it? I would expect BT and Raza know its important to a) find the next generation and b) give them a decent run. BT and Raza are probably looking at Burl right now and going "thank god it wasn't me".
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TapsC2
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by TapsC2 »

Looking at how things are going right now I think both sides have valid reasons. I was really disappointed watching us lose 3 T20s in a row and I still don't believe we had to rest 3 of them but I will admit there were some big benefits from them not playing. I have always believed we are ahead of Ireland and I wanted us to prove it.

The first benefit is of course the injuries. We are very unlucky in that department and Burl is a perfect example of this. This always happens. Somebody catches corona or somebody gets a freak injury. All the time. The whole year we have suffered from this. I think Ervine had played 1 game all year before this tour.

The second benefit is that we kind of caught Ireland off-guard a bit. Even though they knew that those guys were sitting out, they clearly were not ready for the jump in quality. I have seen a lot of their fans commenting on the quality. This is not the Zimbabwe of 2019 and a lot of them were expecting maximum points at home. Losing 2 T20 games against the kids was clearly not a big enough warning sign. The alarm bells would have gone off a week ago if the big 4 had played all those T20s. They would have made some changes to their tactics etc.

Finally the most important benefit for me was that the big 4 had something to prove. It lit a fire in them and that was clear to see. This is what happens when your job is under threat. Had 2 of those kids blown Ireland apart in the T20s, we would have seen real fireworks. That's the unfortunate part. Competition is very healthy.

Overall i think IF we secure a series win here then the tour and experiment would have been a success.

TapsC2
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by TapsC2 »

The quality that Muzarabani has also caught them by surprise in the ODIs. He looked out of touch in the T20s he played but I think it was the niggle he had. Don't be surprised if they play an extra batsman today. Blessing is a big gun and we really should be calling it the big 5 now. The big 5 plus Chakabva :lol:

Kriterion_BD
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by Kriterion_BD »

TapsC2 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:56 am
The quality that Muzarabani has also caught them by surprise in the ODIs. He looked out of touch in the T20s he played but I think it was the niggle he had. Don't be surprised if they play an extra batsman today. Blessing is a big gun and we really should be calling it the big 5 now. The big 5 plus Chakabva :lol:
Blessing is part of the Young 5 (Wes, Myers, Shumba, Marumani, Blessing).

Big 4 (Taylor, Williams, Raza, Ervine) are from a different generation plus they've performed against some of the top sides.
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slcricfan1
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by slcricfan1 »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:17 pm
TapsC2 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:56 am
The quality that Muzarabani has also caught them by surprise in the ODIs. He looked out of touch in the T20s he played but I think it was the niggle he had. Don't be surprised if they play an extra batsman today. Blessing is a big gun and we really should be calling it the big 5 now. The big 5 plus Chakabva :lol:
Blessing is part of the Young 5 (Wes, Myers, Shumba, Marumani, Blessing).

Big 4 (Taylor, Williams, Raza, Ervine) are from a different generation plus they've performed against some of the top sides.

hard to group blessing with those guys when you also have ngarava and jongwe as well

TapsC2
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by TapsC2 »

zimfan1 wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:56 pm
Raza will step away after the series I reckon.
If he has T20 opportunities then I guess so. It just baffles me why we have to keep pleading with these guys to stay when there is clearly 1 big target , the ODI World Cup. His T20 gigs actually come from him being a renowned ODI finisher. That's the part I don't get.

There are some massive guaranteed ODIs against Australia, India and Sri Lanka where Raza can show his skills and have that fancy stat of him having one of the highest strike rates at the death come on the screen when he is batting. Possible secure some really big gigs. You don't get those gigs because you set the Nepal T20 league on fire.

Also at that age a comeback ain't easy. Burl is hitting big these days. There might be no space in a year

Kriterion_BD
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Re: When was the last time...

Post by Kriterion_BD »

slcricfan1 wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:43 am

hard to group blessing with those guys when you also have ngarava and jongwe as well
Jongwe has done nothing of note in his career as of yet. Ditto for Ngarava. Blessing has run through Pakistan a couple of times and hence is a couple notches ahead of those two.
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