Nick welch

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Googly
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Re: Nick welch

Post by Googly »

As with all things it depends where your wife and her family live :lol:

Tinah09
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Re: Nick welch

Post by Tinah09 »

Googly wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:25 am
The stop gap mentality is all wrong. That's what ZC have pinned their hopes on, sold partly to them by Ratshit.
What if Madhevere is not the next Kohli? 🤣
He's played two tests, 9 ODI's and 18 T20's. They'll play the - we've got some young players and they need a couple of decades for as long as possible, but at some point someone has to have a reality check. He's got potential for sure, but in the real world, not ZC fantasy land, the time is fast approaching where he needs to deliver. If he can't make runs against Ireland and Scotland he's not going to. Again I'm not knocking those teams, they've got some really good players, but the other member nations are next level. They're up and coming and we're down and going.

Gary Ballance can play all formats with aplomb, he's an unbelievably good player. It hurts to hear but we don't have a current player that will ever be as good as Ballance. His county record is awesome and he should still be in that England set up, he's world class. Not in two lifetimes will Madhevere be as good as Ballance.
I agree with you. Lets invest in the available talent we have, more A games to get Myers, Marumani, Mumba, Mavuta etc on point. Lure Emmanuel Bawa back, I hear Ryan Murray wants to play test cricket, he must be done with varsity by now , Get these guys good contracts. Guys pursuing county cricket and ill-fated attempts to play for England are GONE, lets move on!!

secretzimbo
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Re: Nick welch

Post by secretzimbo »

Ballance still has family in Zim, yeah.

Talk of him returning to play for Zim is absolutely nonsensical though. He's one of if not the top earner at Yorkshire, and still probably their best player (not including their England players). Unless he has some sort of major brain haemorrhage theres no way he's ever going to choose Zim.

Welch more likely, although it depends how they treat his younger brother. I guess thats why Welch jr was in the Nam A squad last month, buttering the family up. If Welch Jr is U19 captain next year or something it will be pretty clear they are making an effort for Welch Sr.

I can't see another BT/Jarvis 'importing' policy of offering guys big contracts up front to get them back. Don't think that will happen any time soon. The only way we are getting players back is if their county deal goes tits up and they end up with no choice but to try and work their way into the national team.

Hopefully we get a handful playing Logan Cup again this season anyway - if travel rules allow. That strengthens the domestic scene at least.

CholeZimbo
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Re: Nick welch

Post by CholeZimbo »

secretzimbo wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:01 am
Ballance still has family in Zim, yeah.

Talk of him returning to play for Zim is absolutely nonsensical though. He's one of if not the top earner at Yorkshire, and still probably their best player (not including their England players). Unless he has some sort of major brain haemorrhage theres no way he's ever going to choose Zim. :lol: :lol:

Welch more likely, although it depends how they treat his younger brother. I guess thats why Welch jr was in the Nam A squad last month, buttering the family up. If Welch Jr is U19 captain next year or something it will be pretty clear they are making an effort for Welch Sr.

I can't see another BT/Jarvis 'importing' policy of offering guys big contracts up front to get them back. Don't think that will happen any time soon. The only way we are getting players back is if their county deal goes tits up and they end up with no choice but to try and work their way into the national team.

Hopefully we get a handful playing Logan Cup again this season anyway - if travel rules allow. That strengthens the domestic scene at least.

Googly
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Re: Nick welch

Post by Googly »

There's another term that makes no sense- let's invest in these guys! Its right up there with grassroots. How exactly? What possible magic can be bought that turns ok players into really good ones? They "invest" in guys by giving them international games when they're not good enough, that will never pay off. Or they give them one A game a year and hope they become stars, what about the other 364 days in-between?
If you're not slaying it here domestically you've got no chance, the standard of cricket here is not good.


I wasn't suggesting Ballance was a realistic option, I was just saying how good he was. If this place was run by competent people I reckon Ballance would certainly consider giving international cricket a shot. He was hard done by, but the dop didn't help.

Ya those lads over in UK are in sink or swim territory. If they do well they'll probably stay where they are, if they do poorly they don't have a bargaining chip. They might slink back and have to do penance in KweKwe for a couple of seasons and hope that one of the incumbents doesn't get a scratchy 40 against Uzbekistan in the previous two years.

I don't see any of them trying Logan Cup this year, last season was the customary cluster fuck that we've all learnt to expect and love.
Byrom has just got a 2 year deal at Glamorgan. Lucky fish coz he was on very thin ice, he was about to be the first casualty. I think he will do well, he's a proper player.
Muyeye has done nothing yet, and appears to be in Second team. That shows how tough County Ones is.
Theyre desperate for black players and he will get an extended shot I would think.
Schardendorf needs time in Two's, he's young. He won't get much opportunity with Moores as the incumbent.
Welch has been poorly treated, finally gets a shot and badly dislocates his knee, after being out for months with a broken thumb, he's in last chance saloon next season in a team who's batsmen average less than 20 and they won't give him a start. It's a strange world out there.
I'm not sure when Murray last played a game, I'd think he's done. Another mythical figure. I'd think Schardendorf and Welch Jr are better keeper batsmen than him already.
Bawa will probably come back unless he gets a Uni position, which is likely. I've not heard a word about any sport he may have played. He's another with cult like status here. He's not as good as Muyeye at the same age, but I rate him, he's good.
ZC had a chance at snaring Byrom and ignored him. That was a major blunder, he's way better than the current young guys. His stats don't reflect that but he's got the goods.
If they ignored him then it's obvious they feel they've got enough in-country to tide them over. They're very wrong, but only time will tell, we don't have much of it, the clock has inexorably ticked and D Day is fast approaching.

secretzimbo
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Re: Nick welch

Post by secretzimbo »

Muyeye went down the asylum route remember - he will never come back to Zim. Probably not even set foot in the country again.
I've heard Murray has signed up for the domestic season this year. No idea if he is capable though. It will be funny if he can spend an entire two years without playing a single cricket match (has he even trained?) but come back and perform well in our domestic stuff straight away. That will speak volumes about the quality lol. I have zero expectations around him though after such a long break. If he does perform it will be a nice little bonus for us though.
Will be interesting to see if Bawa plays the U19WC early next year, just before his exams. If he doesn't then I think we can assume thats the end of him. Hopefully he comes back - I rate him as high as any of the 4 youngsters in the national side at the moment.
Byrom I'm not convinced on. If someone is struggling so much at a very good county with presumably world-class facilities and coaching and regular fixtures and lots of chances - safe to assume he would be doing even worse in the Zim setup. He had a lot of talent as a kid but he seems to be in genuine decline which is sad. He has the option of Ireland as well anyway.



If we had unlimited money in some fantasy world then the 1 player I'd pick to bring back would actually be Higgins. Not happening though.

Tinah09
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Re: Nick welch

Post by Tinah09 »

Its funny how some characters on this forum will shit on zimbabwe grass roots cricket, whilst pinning on players like Schadendorf, Ballance etc. Players who were identified , groomed and developed BY THAT VERY GRASSROOTS. Most of these ex-Zim players played youth cricket for Zimbabwe, coached by ZC youth coaches, most playing at U19 World cup tournaments. Unfortunately, for us, they chose to pursue playing for England, which is fine. But lets not pretend that the young up-and-coming players we have are dead on arrival. Saying Madhevere will never be as good as Ballance is the dumbest statement ever posted. What is this asanine statement based on? A few games under the tutelage of a useless coaching staff? A teenager is supposedly supposed to be world-class instantly?

secretzimbo
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Re: Nick welch

Post by secretzimbo »

Tinah09 wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:29 am
Its funny how some characters on this forum will shit on zimbabwe grass roots cricket, whilst pinning on players like Schadendorf, Ballance etc. Players who were identified , groomed and developed BY THAT VERY GRASSROOTS. Most of these ex-Zim players played youth cricket for Zimbabwe, coached by ZC youth coaches, most playing at U19 World cup tournaments. Unfortunately, for us, they chose to pursue playing for England, which is fine. But lets not pretend that the young up-and-coming players we have are dead on arrival. Saying Madhevere will never be as good as Ballance is the dumbest statement ever posted. What is this asanine statement based on? A few games under the tutelage of a useless coaching staff? A teenager is supposedly supposed to be world-class instantly?
We do head-scratchingly produce a lot of talented kids. And we continue to do so.

But they get to senior level and those that stay in Zim never kick on. Look at all the players that came through from 2005-2020, not including the big 4. How many of the hugely talented black youth players from that era went on to make international centuries for example? You can count them on one hand. We are a naturally talented country with good cricketing heritage, a small handful of schools who take it really seriously and for many kids its a potential elite career - theres a lot of prestige around cricket still and so kids and their parents push for it.

But theres a difference between dominating Zimbabwean school cricket, or being competent in an U19 team for a few months, and becoming an international quality, test playing senior player over the course of a career.

The domestic setup is useless. To say anything else would be pretty mad. 5 teams is a nice idea and I'm all for giving more people more opportunities but it ultimately means the quality is spread too thinly (unless 8 or 9 overseas lads come back and play each year in their off season). There are way too few fixtures, especially in white ball cricket. 5 T20 games a season? What a joke. You could have two games on the same day if you were really bothered about saving money and time etc. There's no reason they couldn't be playing 15 T20's a season per team. I really hope we get at least a double round-robin in all three formats this season. Covid is a great excuse not to, though!

And the coaching is terrible, yes. Because the board appointed a quiet yes-man three years ago who has failed miserably and they have even entertained extending his contract in recent times. The batters are coached by someone who has a terrible international record. The big 4 know more about batting than the batting coach. Blessing is a better bowler than the bowling coach ever was. And then who does someone like Burl turn to? Is there a single decent active legspin coach in the entire country?

And then you can add in the way they are all treated.

I was really hopeful when Hami came in and I felt like last season he did a lot, made a lot of right noises and seemed to care about the game which is a refreshing change. Finally picking the youngsters or fresh faces over his old Takashinga mates was positive too. Things seemed to be slowly heading in the right direction and I made many positive posts on here arguing with a few guys who were more negative.

Then the debacle around treating the big 4 like shit over the past month or so happened. Then I lost faith. The system, the domestic setup, the culture - it's all shit. Wes has as much talent as Ballance or anyone at his age. Marumani has talent. Shumba has talent. Myers has talent. But they are already being managed like shit, their confidence destroyed, part of a losing culture, no standards, and they sadly won't get anywhere unless we bring in better coaches, better selectors, and Hami continues trying to put in place improvements to the domestic setup to improve quality.

Googly
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Re: Nick welch

Post by Googly »

I presume I'm some characters? :lol:
Nowhere did I pin my hopes on Ballance or Schardendorf?
I'm giving my opinion of them as players.
I have no aspirations of anyone saving the sinking ship, certainly not one or two imports, if you think that's the extent of our problems you're sadly mistaken.

Not one player who has gone overseas recently has been anywhere near grassroots cricket. Every single one of them is a product of a private school education or scholarship and expensive quality private coaching and absolutely not from a ZC youth coach. 2 weeks in age group camp once every two years does not produce a cricketer, its the stuff inbetween. If these youth coaches had to produce one decent cricketer every 3 years we'd be crying less. It would be good to be shown one quality cricketer that they've produced of late- maybe Shumba, I'm not sure who coached him before he got to U19. He's got some technical problems so whatever coach it was needs a slap coz he's good in spite of the guy.

Of the people that went overseas only Bhawa played u19 so you're wrong again.

There is not a lot of grassroots cricket in Zimbabwe, there's no grass and no roots and no schools that really play cricket. I might be wrong, name me a player that has been successful of late from "grassroots". Successful is relative. Being successful locally is step 1. I'd like to be wrong. I'm waiting.

I think Wes is a great prospect, I think works hard, has lots of drive and ability. Whilst my arsehole points downwards he will never ever be as good as Ballance, he's next level. Please don't take my word for it, Google the guy's stellar career.
They don't have to be as good as him, nearly as good would win us a few games.

TapsC2
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Re: Nick welch

Post by TapsC2 »

When I heard the Scottish cricket boss saying they have over 100 clubs it really hit me that we are in trouble. I'm not going to lie. I was shocked. That's over 1000 players. We probably don't even have 150 players. How have we survived this long?

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