Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

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zimbos_05
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Re: Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

Post by zimbos_05 »

The amount of people ok with us doing "alright" against Ireland and Scotland and then also claiming they are not as good, yet results say otherwise, is quite alarming.

We should never be ok with being on part with these teams. We had a massive head start over them. We should be aiming to compete with the top five, not the bottom fifteen.

Zimco
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Re: Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

Post by Zimco »

Top 5, you are dreaming lol.

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CrimsonAvenger
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Re: Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

Post by CrimsonAvenger »

A more realistic expectation would be to compete hard and regularly vs 6-10 and snatch wins here and there, and utterly dominate everyone below us. We have never in our history competed consistently against top 5 - even at our best. So, it would be very unrealistic to go with such expectations. Yes, we have had stellar moments vs India, Pak, NZ, England and rarely Aus too. But the top 3-4 teams have further broken away from the rest and created a huge gap. We can't look at current India, NZ, etc. as we looked at them in 2000s. We have also regressed and the reasons are obvious. We can't just get up this morning and suddenly reach that level. I'd be happy if we constantly compete and pluck wins vs WI, SL, BD and even Pak. Possibly SA as well if they keep spiraling downwards. We need to start winning comfortably vs IRL, SCO, NED, AFG. And comprehensively against anyone below them. That is a decent target to have for the next 2 years.

slcricfan1
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Re: Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

Post by slcricfan1 »

zimbos_05 wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:56 am
The amount of people ok with us doing "alright" against Ireland and Scotland and then also claiming they are not as good, yet results say otherwise, is quite alarming.

We should never be ok with being on part with these teams. We had a massive head start over them. We should be aiming to compete with the top five, not the bottom fifteen.
Top 5 is very unrealistic. Top 10 on the other hand is doable. Trying to compete realistically with Aus,Nz, India etc at this stage with all their resources and player pool is dreaming very big

sam_ahm
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Re: Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

Post by sam_ahm »

CrimsonAvenger wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:15 am
A more realistic expectation would be to compete hard and regularly vs 6-10 and snatch wins here and there, and utterly dominate everyone below us. We have never in our history competed consistently against top 5 - even at our best. So, it would be very unrealistic to go with such expectations. Yes, we have had stellar moments vs India, Pak, NZ, England and rarely Aus too. But the top 3-4 teams have further broken away from the rest and created a huge gap. We can't look at current India, NZ, etc. as we looked at them in 2000s. We have also regressed and the reasons are obvious. We can't just get up this morning and suddenly reach that level. I'd be happy if we constantly compete and pluck wins vs WI, SL, BD and even Pak. Possibly SA as well if they keep spiraling downwards. We need to start winning comfortably vs IRL, SCO, NED, AFG. And comprehensively against anyone below them. That is a decent target to have for the next 2 years.
Agreed that realistic enough.

Qualification for 50 over WC looks so difficult at the moment. It is such a shame and such a disgrace that ICC, despite all the improvement shown by associate nations is having a 10 team World Cup in 2023. In a way I want some of those top teams to fail in the ODI.league and subsequently miss out on qualification. It will be fun.

TapsC2
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Re: Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

Post by TapsC2 »

Bangladesh suffer from the same problem we have. Most of their best players struggle to clear the ropes. Just like in Test Cricket where you need a shot that gets you off strike, you need at least 1 shot in T20 cricket where you can clear the ropes. A shot that you can play without worrying about the field placement. A shot you know when you execute it correctly, its a six no matter where you are playing.

If you have that problem then you need to mix up the batting order otherwise your senior players will consume too many deliveries. If they get out that's the game.

Googly
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Re: Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

Post by Googly »

I don't know why anyone believes we should automatically beat Scotland, Ireland, Netherlands, UAE etc, let alone have a few wins against Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies.

Ireland probably have more cricketers and clubs in two county villages than we do in the entire country.
The incorrect assumption has to be that our handful of cricketers are so talented and mentally and physically superior that it more than makes up for the huge numbers and facilities and organizational abilities of other nations.
The only thing we have going for us is some half decent funding that never gets to where it's supposed to go :lol:

Back in the day the miracle was that we did actually compete and compete well. The reasons were simple-
A world class schooling system that saw 20-30 great schools with facilities, rivalries, coaches, interested and talented kids and full fixture lists and compulsory sport and regular physical violence inflicted on pussies unwilling to participate. Top boarding schools made military boot camp look like a spa resort. True story. If you were crap at sport you still did your best, found a niche and contributed or for your own safety and well being your parents sent you to Speciss college to learn how to type and smoke marijuana.

A club system that saw astonishing world class levels of cricket, rugby, hockey, tennis, squash, drinking, shagging and socialising. Inter club rugby, in particular, were epic encounters and there was always violence during the game and often in the pub afterwards amongst spectators.
The two key ingredients are gone forever, never to return. Anybody who tells you it can be resurrected is a snake oil salesman, and a shit one. Unfortunately those days are now two generations old and you can only tell the stories to disbelieving, spoilt, entitled private school kids or to some poor rural kid doing afternoon academic shift in the dust bowl he calls a school because the kid desk ratio is about 3:1 .
The days of one kid being worth 10 from another country are done and we now compete one on one and we are outnumbered 1000's to one. Its now simple maths and not a Spartan-like attitude.

Here's a couple of stories that highlight what I'm saying- The England Schools Rugby team used to tour here. Burned in my brain forever is Mashonaland Schools trotting out to meet them on the field of battle. The team comprised of 13 Prince Edward Tigers (you wore your school socks), and a Churchill and a Falcon lad. That was the best school team this country has ever seen.
The school body expected the team to win, the players expected to win, the crowd expected them to win and they delivered. There was no hoping, it was expected, it was their duty to leave nothing on the table. One single school handed the might of England Schools rugby (perhaps 2000 schools) their arse on a plate. The sheer arrogance and beauty of that day I will take to my grave.
Another story-
During a locker room pre-game headbutting routine the three coaches walked into the change rooms. The coaches were legendary men, including Ian Robertson (ex Springbok) . The school captain stopped his talk dead in his tracks and stared at them incredulously, his exact legendary words were- "can you cunts get the fuck out of here, this is our time!" They mumbled apologies and shuffled out. The repercussions after the game? A further apology from the 3 of them, although Buks Van Tonder did add- " less of the cunt, please," with a rare smile on his face. We never played for him, we played for our school and our team. End of.
He is the most legendary school coach in history. Under him PE waterpolo never lost a game in 15 years!! A record that will never be beaten in world sport. The rugby teams may have lost about 15 games total in that period as well. He was a man amongst men. The good teams played for him and the really good teams were self regulating and played for themselves. True story.
You have to bring your A game to compete against young men with that attitude. That same team once had a Friday night tight practice against Mashonaland Men before their game against Russia and they held their own and were right up for any physicality from grown men. I remember seeing those guys in a huddle and one of them saying "jeezus these kids are good!!" Those were Glory Days, gone but not forgotten. Even the old bitches still remember us :lol:

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zimbos_05
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Re: Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

Post by zimbos_05 »

Zimco wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:55 am
Top 5, you are dreaming lol.
I didn't say we should be beating. I said we should be aiming to compete on that level. Very big differences.

If you are comfortable with wanting to be competitive with UAE and Nepal, then I would suggest your dreams are not big enough.

CholeZimbo
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Re: Ireland and Scotland Tour reflection

Post by CholeZimbo »

Googly wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:42 am
I don't know why anyone believes we should automatically beat Scotland, Ireland, Netherlands, UAE etc, let alone have a few wins against Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies.

Ireland probably have more cricketers and clubs in two county villages than we do in the entire country.
The incorrect assumption has to be that our handful of cricketers are so talented and mentally and physically superior that it more than makes up for the huge numbers and facilities and organizational abilities of other nations.
The only thing we have going for us is some half decent funding that never gets to where it's supposed to go :lol:

Back in the day the miracle was that we did actually compete and compete well. The reasons were simple-
A world class schooling system that saw 20-30 great schools with facilities, rivalries, coaches, interested and talented kids and full fixture lists and compulsory sport and regular physical violence inflicted on pussies unwilling to participate. Top boarding schools made military boot camp look like a spa resort. True story. If you were crap at sport you still did your best, found a niche and contributed or for your own safety and well being your parents sent you to Speciss college to learn how to type and smoke marijuana.

A club system that saw astonishing world class levels of cricket, rugby, hockey, tennis, squash, drinking, shagging and socialising. Inter club rugby, in particular, were epic encounters and there was always violence during the game and often in the pub afterwards amongst spectators.
The two key ingredients are gone forever, never to return. Anybody who tells you it can be resurrected is a snake oil salesman, and a shit one. Unfortunately those days are now two generations old and you can only tell the stories to disbelieving, spoilt, entitled private school kids or to some poor rural kid doing afternoon academic shift in the dust bowl he calls a school because the kid desk ratio is about 3:1 .
The days of one kid being worth 10 from another country are done and we now compete one on one and we are outnumbered 1000's to one. Its now simple maths and not a Spartan-like attitude.

Here's a couple of stories that highlight what I'm saying- The England Schools Rugby team used to tour here. Burned in my brain forever is Mashonaland Schools trotting out to meet them on the field of battle. The team comprised of 13 Prince Edward Tigers (you wore your school socks), and a Churchill and a Falcon lad. That was the best school team this country has ever seen.
The school body expected the team to win, the players expected to win, the crowd expected them to win and they delivered. There was no hoping, it was expected, it was their duty to leave nothing on the table. One single school handed the might of England Schools rugby (perhaps 2000 schools) their arse on a plate. The sheer arrogance and beauty of that day I will take to my grave.
Another story-
During a locker room pre-game headbutting routine the three coaches walked into the change rooms. The coaches were legendary men, including Ian Robertson (ex Springbok) . The school captain stopped his talk dead in his tracks and stared at them incredulously, his exact legendary words were- "can you cunts get the fuck out of here, this is our time!" They mumbled apologies and shuffled out. The repercussions after the game? A further apology from the 3 of them, although Buks Van Tonder did add- " less of the cunt, please," with a rare smile on his face. We never played for him, we played for our school and our team. End of.
He is the most legendary school coach in history. Under him PE waterpolo never lost a game in 15 years!! A record that will never be beaten in world sport. The rugby teams may have lost about 15 games total in that period as well. He was a man amongst men. The good teams played for him and the really good teams were self regulating and played for themselves. True story.
You have to bring your A game to compete against young men with that attitude. That same team once had a Friday night tight practice against Mashonaland Men before their game against Russia and they held their own and were right up for any physicality from grown men. I remember seeing those guys in a huddle and one of them saying "jeezus these kids are good!!" Those were Glory Days, gone but not forgotten. Even the old bitches still remember us :lol:
:lol: :lol: love it. Keep em stories coming

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