Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

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andrewn9
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:12 pm

Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by andrewn9 »

Tinah09 wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:46 pm
andrewn9 wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:01 pm
Tinah09 wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:37 am
I don’t blame them, their team has been shit since the last batch of South Africans they poached retired….a batch consisting of CAPTAIN Andrew Strauss, wktkpr-batsman Matt Prior and the BEST ENGLAND BATSMAN OF ALL TIME Kevin Pietersen
Strauss moved to the UK aged 6, Prior moved to the UK aged 11. Tell me, what kind of poaching is this? The kind done with a fucking crystal ball I guess!

I can see that you’ve conveniently left the third cricketer I mentioned i.e greatest test batsman in England history out of your retort. But honestly, doesn’t it look odd that for a ~200 year old institution, the best players to represent England cricket just happen to be blokes born elsewhere? England has well-funded schools, academies and county clubs with great facilities and coaching staff yet their best test batsman is a guy from Pietermaritzburg, KwaZulu-Natal, SA whilst their leading ODI AND T20 batsman (and WC winning captain) just happens to be a guy born in Dublin, Ireland who captained Ireland U19 and had represented the senior Ireland cricket team before ‘switching to England’.

Perhaps it’s just a coincidence!! But if the top performing kids in your household just happen to be children born and raised elsewhere, that does that say about your household?
England didn't poach Pietersen and they didn't poach Morgan. Pietersen felt disaffected with the quota system in SA and chose to move to England to play county cricket. His success in that paved the way to be selected for England. Morgan declared his dream was to play Test cricket and as he couldn't do that for Ireland, he served the qualification period for England, and was then duly selected. Both these players moved to England, without any encouragement from the ECB. By the way, Pietersen has an English mother, as does Morgan, so they are both imo half-English. England is always going to have some players who were born overseas or have mixed heritage. It is one of the most multi-cultural places on Earth, and as it is a wealthy country on a global level, it will attract players who have an eye on exploiting their ancestry to make lots of money. This is not ECB poaching in my book. I think you make way too many sweeping statements such as Pietersen is the greatest English test batsmen (ever heard of Jack Hobbs or Wally Hammond?) and the best players are born elsewhere (try telling that to Cook, Anderson, Broad, Buttler, Swann, Root).

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

There was one point maybe closer to ten years back that I counted 7/11 players as imports to the English team!
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andrewn9
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Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by andrewn9 »

I've been following English cricket for over 30 years, and in that time there's always been players born in other countries who've found themselves in the England team. 7 out of 11 must have been a one off if you've remembered correctly cos it wouldn't regularly be that high. As an Englishman I wouldn't want it to get out of hand but I accept it represents a modern, first world, modern country. But again I wouldn't class players like Strauss, Prior, Stokes, Roy, etc as 'imports'. They all learnt their cricket in the UK from a young age.

slcricfan1
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Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by slcricfan1 »

andrewn9 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:00 am
I've been following English cricket for over 30 years, and in that time there's always been players born in other countries who've found themselves in the England team. 7 out of 11 must have been a one off if you've remembered correctly cos it wouldn't regularly be that high. As an Englishman I wouldn't want it to get out of hand but I accept it represents a modern, first world, modern country. But again I wouldn't class players like Strauss, Prior, Stokes, Roy, etc as 'imports'. They all learnt their cricket in the UK from a young age.
When did Stokes migrate to England? When he was 12? And yeah Strauss Prior and Roy are testament to an incredible South Afircan cricket culture

Tinah09
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Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by Tinah09 »

What makes these cases funny is that it exposes the myth of "rugged, individualistic British pride", we do it alone, we done need anyone or anything from anyone, Brexit mentality, all the whilst the success of your cricket national team is directly correlated to the number of "acquired" foreign talents in the team. France has won multiple football/soccer World Cups with a bunch of acquired foreign talents (mainly West and North African players), New Zealand i.e. the All Blacks have won multiple rugby world cups with a lot of Samoa/Fiji born players. Both nations are okay with it, they don't make a big deal out of it, they genuinely embrace diversity and don't formulate ridiculous excuses to "justify" themselves. The British on the other hand, oh boy, a lot of copping pleas on this forum. "see what had happened was, Pietersen actually came to the UK as an embryo, hence he is really British if you think about it". Christ, you are rich and have well funded leagues and have benefitted immensely from foreign imports as a result, it's not a big deal, we understand, you can't achieve anything without foreign-born cricketers, its okay. So when the U19 WC roars to life, send your talent scouts to see how many future Jofra Archers, Gary Balances and Kevin Pietersens you can snap up, fast-track to British citizenship so that hopefully a few years time you can replace the sorry bunch of losers currently masquerading as cricketers and devaluing the previously-prestigious Ashes tests down under.
Last edited by Tinah09 on Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tinah09
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Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by Tinah09 »

slcricfan1 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:50 am
andrewn9 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:00 am
I've been following English cricket for over 30 years, and in that time there's always been players born in other countries who've found themselves in the England team. 7 out of 11 must have been a one off if you've remembered correctly cos it wouldn't regularly be that high. As an Englishman I wouldn't want it to get out of hand but I accept it represents a modern, first world, modern country. But again I wouldn't class players like Strauss, Prior, Stokes, Roy, etc as 'imports'. They all learnt their cricket in the UK from a young age.
When did Stokes migrate to England? When he was 12? And yeah Strauss Prior and Roy are testament to an incredible South Afircan cricket culture
The longer the discussion goes, the longer the list of foreign-born talent in the England national cricket team both current and past. At this point, its not outlandish to question if Alister Cook, Joe Root and the (very) few "verified" England-born talent were actually indeed born in England. Given that their supposedly rigid, by-the-book Home Office will not hesitate to bend the rules to fast-track citizenship to young talented foreign cricketers , there's no telling if Cook and Root were actually "born" in England. Given the calibre of cricketers they have unleashed unto world lately, the few good ones are a statistical anomaly which warrants further investigation

Marshmallow
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Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by Marshmallow »

U19 thread changes into off topic thread. Can you please stop this and discuss about zimbabwe u19 team :roll:

Googly
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Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by Googly »

@Tinah
Spoken like someone denied a passport or visa. :lol:

County cricket has been the heart beat of the sport for generations. Most of the great cricketers have not just spent time playing county, but have deep affiliations to whichever county they played for. Its likely to be a small portion of the English cricket fraternity that push the England born agenda, unfortunately some of them are old school tie and are influential. If you have an English Citizenship alongside 2 other citizenships thats your good luck or fortitude that got you through the onerous qualification period.
There's no "fast tracking", there's actually a dedicated ECB team that spend their time fucking anybody trying to play County cricket. The Home Office and the ECB are two entirely separate entities and yet they usually share a common goal, keeping foreigners out. They pay particular attention to people with legitimate ancestry claims and yet have an open door policy to people swimming the channel in a tractor tube who's sole intention is to make England as shit as the place they swam from.
If your half witted vitriolic theories were true then all the current SA quicks playing county who've been sent packing would be sporting the Blue Book. They have not head hunted anybody, players go and try their luck there entirely of their own volition because they've usually been disenfranchised in their country of birth, that's the real truth of it.
You profess to embrace diversity clearly only when it suits you.
England are about the best in the world at 2 of the 3 formats and yet here you are thinking they're shit. :lol:

andrewn9
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:12 pm

Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by andrewn9 »

Tinah09 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:48 am
What makes these cases funny is that it exposes the myth of "rugged, individualistic British pride", we do it alone, we done need anyone or anything from anyone, Brexit mentality, all the whilst the success of your cricket national team is directly correlated to the number of "acquired" foreign talents in the team. France has won multiple football/soccer World Cups with a bunch of acquired foreign talents (mainly West and North African players), New Zealand i.e. the All Blacks have won multiple rugby world cups with a lot of Samoa/Fiji born players. Both nations are okay with it, they don't make a big deal out of it, they genuinely embrace diversity and don't formulate ridiculous excuses to "justify" themselves. The British on the other hand, oh boy, a lot of copping pleas on this forum. "see what had happened was, Pietersen actually came to the UK as an embryo, hence he is really British if you think about it". Christ, you are rich and have well funded leagues and have benefitted immensely from foreign imports as a result, it's not a big deal, we understand, you can't achieve anything without foreign-born cricketers, its okay. So when the U19 WC roars to life, send your talent scouts to see how many future Jofra Archers, Gary Balances and Kevin Pietersens you can snap up, fast-track to British citizenship so that hopefully a few years time you can replace the sorry bunch of losers currently masquerading as cricketers and devaluing the previously-prestigious Ashes tests down under.
Now you're going on about Brexit and 'rugged, individualistic British pride' and their connection to cricket! You seem to know all about the UK but I doubt you've ever set foot here. The England team has had foreign born players to varying degrees for decades. It's nothing new, it's just how it is. Some are half-English, some came here as children, some are more mercenary, and some are a combination of all 3. But I think you already have your own theories set in stone.

Tinah09
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:00 am

Re: Under 19s thread. Players and under 19 matches

Post by Tinah09 »

Googly wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:35 am
@Tinah
Spoken like someone denied a passport or visa. :lol:

County cricket has been the heart beat of the sport for generations. Most of the great cricketers have not just spent time playing county, but have deep affiliations to whichever county they played for. Its likely to be a small portion of the English cricket fraternity that push the England born agenda, unfortunately some of them are old school tie and are influential. If you have an English Citizenship alongside 2 other citizenships thats your good luck or fortitude that got you through the onerous qualification period.
There's no "fast tracking", there's actually a dedicated ECB team that spend their time fucking anybody trying to play County cricket. The Home Office and the ECB are two entirely separate entities and yet they usually share a common goal, keeping foreigners out. They pay particular attention to people with legitimate ancestry claims and yet have an open door policy to people swimming the channel in a tractor tube who's sole intention is to make England as shit as the place they swam from.
If your half witted vitriolic theories were true then all the current SA quicks playing county who've been sent packing would be sporting the Blue Book. They have not head hunted anybody, players go and try their luck there entirely of their own volition because they've usually been disenfranchised in their country of birth, that's the real truth of it.
You profess to embrace diversity clearly only when it suits you.
England are about the best in the world at 2 of the 3 formats and yet here you are thinking they're shit. :lol:
You don’t know anything about me, when did I apply for a British passport or visa and get rejected? I hate to break it to you, it’s not everyone’s life goal to immigrate to the UK, don’t believe the hype. We are witnessing a terrible England cricket team in real time, wasting peoples time in Australia yet you are telling us not to believe our lying eyes. I agree that once upon a time, county cricket was the holy grail of cricket and was the league where the who-is-who of cricket played their trade. But let’s not pretend that the world has changed and that the IPL and other lucrative global T20 leagues are the primary targets of almost all cricketers including Root, Stokes etc. the big names in global cricket couldn’t care less about county cricket anymore and it’s a decision purely driven by money. If this current England is ranked no.1 in any format then somethings terribly wrong with the ranking system. We just had a WC T20 a few months ago, I don’t remember the great England winning it. Very little cricket has been played since Covid-19 hit, so whatever rankings available may not be a true reflection of reality today. Anyways, the third ashes match starts tomorrow, I will just sit back and let the great England team show you how “good” they are.it’s pointless to argue back and forth about the capabilities of this great no.1 ranked test team when Mitch Starc and co will once again test them in a few hours time

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