Gary Ballance Statement

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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Googly wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:09 am
Maybe you've misconstrued them. I believe in a level playing field for all. I have a big issue with any form of affirmative action as a means of doing it, mainly because in Zim and SA we are on the receiving end and have been for for a very long time. Ive seen the results of it as well- chaos and a much lower standard of living and opportunities for practically everyone but the elites. It's created real skepticism in a generation of white kids here, which means in fact that they're not trying to eradicate racism at all, they're just trying to get ahead and happy to be racist in order to do so, that's the unpalatable truth of it. The trick is to buy time by making people be profoundly sorry for something they didn't do.
Pulling a previously disadvantaged group up by dragging another group down is the very definition of racism. The hypocrisy of that is sickening. Its coming to a head in America with the increasing backlash to CRT. I've actually been doing a lot of reading about it and listening to talks, it's astonishing what's going on and it's plain wrong. Being anti all of the above does not make me right wing. :lol:
The truth of the matter is that in a lot of instances where there is strong affirmative action (this is a good description for a plethora of ways where people get MORE than equal opportunity) only a small percentage of people manage to take advantage of it. Is there ever going to be a cut off whereby someone says, listen you've had long enough, let's make the playing field level again, or are more ways going to be invented to keep it going eg CRT.
Is this a right wing bigoted post? It's a genuine question.
Whoever thinks so is actually the racist.

Anyway onto a different topic- looks like Rafiq is facing more discomfort.
https://twitter.com/jaymitchinson/statu ... 82629?s=24
OK sounds like you're ready to have a serious discussion. I'll go point by point, and may add some points that have been mentioned elsewhere:

1) Affirmative Action. I view this as something like a can of worms being opened by history. It like not wearing a condom and then catching sypillis. Its not that syphillis is a good thing, its that not wearing a rubber was mistake with consequences. As children growing, we begin to learn that mistakes have consequences. As adults, we learn that debts will always have to be repaid with interest. We know that history has some unsavory elements in it committed by our forefathers, well the universe cannot be expected to change the "mistakes have consquences" rule just because some white people might feel uncomfortable. After all conservatives have adopted the mantra that "facts don't care about feelings". Well the corollary to that is that consequences don't care about anything, they just happen.

People can be sued in court to pay damages just for harming their reputation or business. So shouldn't reparations be paid for harming the lives of millions of people, even if those directly impacted have long since passed? Courts pay the families of deceased people all the time, so living victim is also not a requisite. Asides from morality, there isn't even a legal precedent for being opposed to some form of restitution. Now what that restitution would look like precisely is a valid point of discussion IMO. Do you just give checks to individuals? Do you pay institutions? Do you not pay anything and just give tax credits? Could be anything IMO.

2) Level Playing field. Suppose in a Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe cricket match, every run Bangladesh scores is doubled. When Zimbabwe comes to bat, the umpires decide to only count the runs Zimbabwe actually scores, because those are the fair rules of cricket. Level playing field in the Zimbabwe innings, isn't it? But the problem is the game didn't start with the Zimbabwe innings. It started with the Bangladesh innings where the field was not level. So in the next match, Zimbabwe should get "affirmative action" in their innings, in order to REALLY even the field for the series.

3) CRT. I am admittedly not an expert on CRT myself. But from what you know about it, what is your precise objection to CRT?
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secretzimbo
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Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by secretzimbo »

This has largely been a very entertaining discussion to read, but the post above is absolute bollocks. God help America if thats the prevailing view.

You're as bad as the Afrikaans-heritage kids in school years and years ago ffs who were brainwashed into not speaking to us English kids because of something that happened over a hundred years ago :lol: . Maatjie, I'm 12, funnily enough it wasn't me fucking your ancestors in the Boer War in 1899!

So my great great great grandfather who I never met was a bit of a wanker. Whats that got to do with me?


Affirmative action my ass - literally nonsense. In truth 'affirmative action' is actually just reverse racism. We all know it. You know it. Stop the bullshit. Look where 'affirmative action' got us in Zimbabwe?!?! I guarantee you wouldn't have the same view if as a 14-year old you were woke in the middle of the night by circa 200 men with AK47's trying to kidnap us, smashing up our house and demanding we leave our land. Some of us have actually lived that, and been thoroughly traumatised for life by it, all in the name of 'affirmative action'. We were lucky to survive. We had neighbours and friends who were murdered. But hey. Never mind actual real world examples of it. Let's all live in a fucking fairy land, eh?
Kriterion_BD wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:43 am
2) Level Playing field. Suppose in a Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe cricket match, every run Bangladesh scores is doubled. When Zimbabwe comes to bat, the umpires decide to only count the runs Zimbabwe actually scores, because those are the fair rules of cricket. Level playing field in the Zimbabwe innings, isn't it? But the problem is the game didn't start with the Zimbabwe innings. It started with the Bangladesh innings where the field was not level. So in the next match, Zimbabwe should get "affirmative action" in their innings, in order to REALLY even the field for the series.
Painfully idiotic comparison/example.

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

I notice that alot of my black and aboriginal friends keep being told they are a victim of past oppressions and whatever. Growing up they paid no thought to any of that and just live normal lives.

Some are just amused and befuddled by it. Others try and work it to their advantage. Thankfully none have been Rafa-esque in their manipulation of the system, but they know the go.
It is strange how perfectly normal people are being convinced that they are a victim of something.
In all honesty if people truly wanted equality, they would stop bringing up the differences every two seconds, or at least make light of it. Something Rafas supporters havent understood, playful banter is a sign of affection.

On another note, my friend (has a french father) recommended me watch Vikings the other week.
i got up to season 3 where the vikings invaded and looted through Paris, and called him up to offer my support to him for the 'trauma and hurt' seeing that must have caused and I expressed dismay that a trigger warning message wasn't included at the beginning of the episode for french viewers.

Of course i was completely taking the piss out of him and having a laugh and he reacted with fake sobs over the phone and that and we moved on.

But afterwards I thought, how the Fis this any different to the other 'generational trauma' stuff going around?

How can a black American by any more hurt from an episofe from 200 years ago than a french from 1000? or a native american in 1500 or so forth?

What if a french actually was traumatised at that? he would be laughed at. I would be the leader of the laughter too.

What about all the soviet countries colonised?

What about belarus losing 25% of their population through the crazed actions of the Dirlewanger gang burning alive villages in the 40's??

Id say thats way more current that slavery and probably the worst genocide the last 100 years.

Watch this true event movie called Come and See and tell me Im wrong.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te52D5c4S90
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ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

BTW Come and See is in the conversation as possibly the greatest war movie of all time and rightly so.

8.1/10 on IMDB which puts it in the top 100 movies of all time by user ratings.

It is definitely the most disturbing war film you'll see.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

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Rajkumar Sharma
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Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:20 am
BTW Come and See is in the conversation as possibly the greatest war movie of all time and rightly so.

8.1/10 on IMDB which puts it in the top 100 movies of all time by user ratings.

It is definitely the most disturbing war film you'll see.
Ask admin to include you and that nose poker as mod so that you can ban everyone those who criticizes or not take your suggestions :lol: At the might see you and him as the only member :lol:

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

Rajkumar Sharma wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:40 am
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:20 am
BTW Come and See is in the conversation as possibly the greatest war movie of all time and rightly so.

8.1/10 on IMDB which puts it in the top 100 movies of all time by user ratings.

It is definitely the most disturbing war film you'll see.
Ask admin to include you and that nose poker as mod so that you can ban everyone those who criticizes or not take your suggestions :lol: At the might see you and him as the only member :lol:
Now say it again and this time in English please.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 5669
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by Kriterion_BD »

secretzimbo wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:24 am


Affirmative action my ass - literally nonsense. In truth 'affirmative action' is actually just reverse racism. We all know it. You know it. Stop the bullshit. Look where 'affirmative action' got us in Zimbabwe?!?! I guarantee you wouldn't have the same view if as a 14-year old you were woke in the middle of the night by circa 200 men with AK47's trying to kidnap us, smashing up our house and demanding we leave our land. Some of us have actually lived that, and been thoroughly traumatised for life by it, all in the name of 'affirmative action'. We were lucky to survive. We had neighbours and friends who were murdered. But hey. Never mind actual real world examples of it. Let's all live in a fucking fairy land, eh?
Googly and I were largely discussing the US (CRT and Lebron James incident are uniquely American events). I don't know much about Zimbabwe and so I never comment on all the ZANU related threads we've had in the past. I don't know anything related to any ZANU or anything related to that.

Also what you described happens to minorities in almost every country so I absolutely believe your story. It happened to Hindu minorities in Bangladesh just last month, that too based on a false flag blasphemy incident. It happens anywhere an oppressive majority feels they have immunity to boss the minority. It happened on Black Wall Street in Tulsa to American blacks 100+ years ago. In short, it is affirmative action.
Kriterion_BD wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:43 am
Painfully idiotic comparison/example.
And also painfully prevalent on this very forum. 90% of the ZCF match threads have not one or three, but MULTIPLE claims of the umpires being biased against Zimbabwe no matter if they are playing against Australia or Netherlands. And you guys are actually right most of the time. But every country has bad calls go against them, and DRS decisions overturned. Heck even India cops an unusual amount of bad calls.

But the comparison is apt for the issue at hand. To claim that a level playing field in the present, after 300 years of having total advantage and 150 years of having significant advantages makes mathematical sense is just not factually correct. A people worked for 300 years with ZERO pay...they cannot be at the same economic playing field others...its mathematicallly impossible. Any number divided by 0 is infinity.
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secretzimbo
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Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by secretzimbo »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:57 pm

Googly and I were largely discussing the US (CRT and Lebron James incident are uniquely American events). I don't know much about Zimbabwe and so I never comment on all the ZANU related threads we've had in the past. I don't know anything related to any ZANU or anything related to that.
I think you and anyone pushing this affirmative action bollocks in the West should really look into it and research it as a matter of urgency.

Learn lessons my friend.

Googly
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Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by Googly »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:43 am
Googly wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:09 am
Maybe you've misconstrued them. I believe in a level playing field for all. I have a big issue with any form of affirmative action as a means of doing it, mainly because in Zim and SA we are on the receiving end and have been for for a very long time. Ive seen the results of it as well- chaos and a much lower standard of living and opportunities for practically everyone but the elites. It's created real skepticism in a generation of white kids here, which means in fact that they're not trying to eradicate racism at all, they're just trying to get ahead and happy to be racist in order to do so, that's the unpalatable truth of it. The trick is to buy time by making people be profoundly sorry for something they didn't do.
Pulling a previously disadvantaged group up by dragging another group down is the very definition of racism. The hypocrisy of that is sickening. Its coming to a head in America with the increasing backlash to CRT. I've actually been doing a lot of reading about it and listening to talks, it's astonishing what's going on and it's plain wrong. Being anti all of the above does not make me right wing. :lol:
The truth of the matter is that in a lot of instances where there is strong affirmative action (this is a good description for a plethora of ways where people get MORE than equal opportunity) only a small percentage of people manage to take advantage of it. Is there ever going to be a cut off whereby someone says, listen you've had long enough, let's make the playing field level again, or are more ways going to be invented to keep it going eg CRT.
Is this a right wing bigoted post? It's a genuine question.
Whoever thinks so is actually the racist.

Anyway onto a different topic- looks like Rafiq is facing more discomfort.
https://twitter.com/jaymitchinson/statu ... 82629?s=24
OK sounds like you're ready to have a serious discussion. I'll go point by point, and may add some points that have been mentioned elsewhere:

1) Affirmative Action. I view this as something like a can of worms being opened by history. It like not wearing a condom and then catching sypillis. Its not that syphillis is a good thing, its that not wearing a rubber was mistake with consequences. As children growing, we begin to learn that mistakes have consequences. As adults, we learn that debts will always have to be repaid with interest. We know that history has some unsavory elements in it committed by our forefathers, well the universe cannot be expected to change the "mistakes have consquences" rule just because some white people might feel uncomfortable. After all conservatives have adopted the mantra that "facts don't care about feelings". Well the corollary to that is that consequences don't care about anything, they just happen.

People can be sued in court to pay damages just for harming their reputation or business. So shouldn't reparations be paid for harming the lives of millions of people, even if those directly impacted have long since passed? Courts pay the families of deceased people all the time, so living victim is also not a requisite. Asides from morality, there isn't even a legal precedent for being opposed to some form of restitution. Now what that restitution would look like precisely is a valid point of discussion IMO. Do you just give checks to individuals? Do you pay institutions? Do you not pay anything and just give tax credits? Could be anything IMO.

2) Level Playing field. Suppose in a Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe cricket match, every run Bangladesh scores is doubled. When Zimbabwe comes to bat, the umpires decide to only count the runs Zimbabwe actually scores, because those are the fair rules of cricket. Level playing field in the Zimbabwe innings, isn't it? But the problem is the game didn't start with the Zimbabwe innings. It started with the Bangladesh innings where the field was not level. So in the next match, Zimbabwe should get "affirmative action" in their innings, in order to REALLY even the field for the series.

3) CRT. I am admittedly not an expert on CRT myself. But from what you know about it, what is your precise objection to CRT?
I'll need a bit of time to lambaste CRT, I'll get onto it a bit later, but the key point, and I'm not exaggerating, is that you have to continue during your lifetime to apologise for your whiteness, and to seek absolution for the sins of your forefathers, and that you'll probably not quite ever come to terms with it. There are now white support groups, similar to AA, that you can call a hotline at any time for help if the guilt gets too much and you feel like ending it, or if there's something you don't quite understand and need an explanation. The Washington Post is currently running an advert on it, and I'm almost certain it will cost the Democrats the next election because it's that outrageous.
I'll find some links.


You keep giving weird examples to try and prove your points, like syphilis, condoms and cricket :lol:, I'm not sure where you suck those from, but it gives you a thumbs up from followers who can't follow the grown-ups having a chat and feel that your story is well constructed because they grasp the Enid Blyton version :lol:
. I'll think of a vaginal thrush one to prove one of my points in due course.

If you want to see rioting and looting that makes all before it pale into insignificance then the Gov should offer tax breaks as restitution for the next 1000 years. :lol: :lol:
Every city in America will be burnt to the ground. If you thought George Floyd caused mayhem, wait to see what happens if someone has to actually work to benefit. It will show the world in a heartbeat what the people really want.

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Gary Ballance Statement

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Googly wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:24 pm


I'll need a bit of time to lambaste CRT, I'll get onto it a bit later, but the key point, and I'm not exaggerating, is that you have to continue during your lifetime to apologise for your whiteness, and to seek absolution for the sins of your forefathers, and that you'll probably not quite ever come to terms with it. There are now white support groups, similar to AA, that you can call a hotline at any time for help if the guilt gets too much and you feel like ending it, or if there's something you don't quite understand and need an explanation. The Washington Post is currently running an advert on it, and I'm almost certain it will cost the Democrats the next election because it's that outrageous.
I'll find some links.
OK there is no evidence that CRT is about apologies. Thats just untrue. CRT is an academic movement so apologies aren't a part of that. Its not examining FUTURE apologies...its objective is to portray the other side of PAST history.
You keep giving weird examples to try and prove your points, like syphilis, condoms and cricket :lol:, I'm not sure where you suck those from, but it gives you a thumbs up from followers who can't follow the grown-ups having a chat and feel that your story is well constructed because they grasp the Enid Blyton version :lol:
. I'll think of a vaginal thrush one to prove one of my points in due course.
That was for your benefit since you seemed to be struggling to make logical connections between topics. For example, you kept confusing privilege with wealth. If they are the same, can you give me the current exchange rate of US dollars to privilege?

Your team tends to make a lot of simple errors...for example confusing a mask mandate with the Holocaust, or confusing minute regulation (carbon emissions guidelines) with communism.
If you want to see rioting and looting that makes all before it pale into insignificance then the Gov should offer tax breaks as restitution for the next 1000 years. :lol: :lol:
Every city in America will be burnt to the ground. If you thought George Floyd caused mayhem, wait to see what happens if someone has to actually work to benefit. It will show the world in a heartbeat what the people really want.
I don't see why anyone should be upset. The left gets their restitution and the right gets a tax break. Win-win for all IMO.

Why should white people riot? They won't be paying more in taxes...black would just get tax cuts. Now if they don't want a good thing to happen to blacks, it means they dislike them, and if they dislike an entire group, that would be racist.
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