2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Participate in discussion with your fellow Zimbabwe cricket fans!
sloandog
Posts: 9843
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:28 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos
Location: Manchester UK

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by sloandog »

Aren't ready **

secretzimbo
Posts: 8689
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:08 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos
Location: Gweru

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by secretzimbo »

lobsang wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:02 pm
Now this part is very important as far as I am concerned, If I were Mukuhulani, I would not be that stupid to let the game die coz I and my colleague ( all corrupted ) can keep on milking ICC funds as long as we can field a team that can challenge and beat the number 6, 7 and 8 ranked teams more often than not and I will do everything in my power to assemble a team that can get us to ICC global events so that we can keep our pockets full of $€€$. Remember before 2019 World cup qualifiers took place, they did everything in their hands to bring back BT and Jarvis.

So after these three are gone, yes Zimbabwe cricket may suffer defeats that they would not suffer with the present team at the hands of lesser known teams for a year or two but I think these dorks at ZC will devise something to keep the engine working for as long as they can so that they pockets will not run out of those $$$$€€€€.
^ This point is true.
Honestly, it is annoying to go through these sad future scenarios and to hear members on this forum's predictions of what could happen after the trio of Williams, Ervine and Raza retire. Let's remind ourselves of the fact that Ervine went to play in Ireland with the hope that he could play for them and if the Irish board saw in him something special, he would have represented Ireland by now. In Raza's case too, He would have been wooed by PCB to play for them like what they did to Usman Qadir, the son of great Abdul Qadir. Usman was on the cusp of playing for Australia but finally he chose his birth-country.

Shumba, Madhevere and Bawa and even Myers, if he makes a comeback in the near future, have what it takes to become as good as these three if not better, it will all come down to their willingness to put in the hard yards. And remember we are not hoping for them to be like Kohli, Maxwell and ABD. there are many pessimistic souls on this forum. 2004 talent drought was way worse than what the departure of these three would do to say the least. Almost 15 to 16 players left Zimbabwe cricket for greener pasture . And that kind of players' exodus could have crippled even BCCI, CA and ECB for 4 to five years. Williams, Ervine and BT would have disappeared into oblivion if they played for India, Australia or England, considering the abundance of talents in those countries, coz they struggled initially in their careers. They kept getting opportunities in Zimbabwe thanks to the small pool of talents in the country and they got better as the years passed by with experience.

Burl can become a better player than Sikandar Raza and for that to happen, the administration or selectors must put some faith and support that he is important part of the squad moving forward, and Shumba by his age is way well ahead of Ervine in my opinion. And Madhevere is as talented as they come and not many would have said such things about BT at Madhevere's age when he burst onto the international scene. BT, Williams, Ervine and Raza are good players but honestly they are not irreplaceable at all. There is every chance that Myers and Murray may return in the near future and ZC will dangle an enticing carrot to bring them back for sure at some stage and then there is this Bawa kid, and Marumani could work on his batting coz he is extremely young. From bowling point of view, Ngarava and Muzarabani can easily serve Zim for another 8 to 10 years and few other will definitely emerge in between.
But I'm not sure about any of this mate. I think it's way way way too optimistic and dare I say a little naive perhaps.

Of course, I really hope you are right and I am wrong! I guess we'll have to wait and see.

secretzimbo
Posts: 8689
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:08 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos
Location: Gweru

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by secretzimbo »

Sloandog has got it in a nutshell really. BT/Willo/Ervine grew up in a world class school and junior system. It just doesn't exist here anymore.

The players coming through have got the natural talent, and maybe the mindset too. But our system will hold them back unless there is fundamental change pretty soon.

lobsang
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:46 am

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by lobsang »

sloandog wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:21 pm
I don't really agree with a lot of what you've put if I'm honest.

In 2004, yes, the players exodus almost crippled the system and the blatant racism from within ZC was much less covered up as it is now. However, the system which brought in Ervine, Williams and BT was still around and thriving. The club system was strong, the Under 19's had just had a golden time of it at the CWC and there was genuinely a lot of talent I the wings, they simply were not ready and that's the bottom line.

I don't think many on this forum would disagree that Taylor turned some heads when he played against Sri Lanka as an 18 year old. From day one he was hyped up and rightly so, he was as gifted as any batter we've had since Andy Flower, period. He's been our best ODI player ever and from the start you could tell he had what it took.

My point is that the current lads in the squad need another two years to mature, and I don't know if the likes of Ervine and Williams will last that long. Again, they were part of a system which has been long dismantled and left to memory, to riminis about and long for. That system gave the country a lot of solid FC and international players. Even 2 years later, the under 19's Heald their own and had such talent. Cremer, meth, Nicholson, Mire, Higgins, Ballance, Querl, Williams himself...they all came from that system of club crixket and solid school cricket. It doesn't exist now mate and the situation we had in 2004 is going to look very rosy compared to now. We have a handful of potential international players coming through, that's it, and they are ready.

So the big question is will Mukuhulani and co do something, if the situation of the game become such poor? If I were him, I would do everything in my power to bring back those Zimbos playing oversea. I would go entice and assure those talented kids to come back and play for the country coz AT THE END OF THE DAY it is all about money and a competent and good Zimbabwe team means nothing but fat pockets to these thugs at ZC.

lobsang
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:46 am

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by lobsang »

lobsang wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:33 pm
sloandog wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:21 pm
I don't really agree with a lot of what you've put if I'm honest.

In 2004, yes, the players exodus almost crippled the system and the blatant racism from within ZC was much less covered up as it is now. However, the system which brought in Ervine, Williams and BT was still around and thriving. The club system was strong, the Under 19's had just had a golden time of it at the CWC and there was genuinely a lot of talent I the wings, they simply were not ready and that's the bottom line.

I don't think many on this forum would disagree that Taylor turned some heads when he played against Sri Lanka as an 18 year old. From day one he was hyped up and rightly so, he was as gifted as any batter we've had since Andy Flower, period. He's been our best ODI player ever and from the start you could tell he had what it took.

My point is that the current lads in the squad need another two years to mature, and I don't know if the likes of Ervine and Williams will last that long. Again, they were part of a system which has been long dismantled and left to memory, to riminis about and long for. That system gave the country a lot of solid FC and international players. Even 2 years later, the under 19's Heald their own and had such talent. Cremer, meth, Nicholson, Mire, Higgins, Ballance, Querl, Williams himself...they all came from that system of club crixket and solid school cricket. It doesn't exist now mate and the situation we had in 2004 is going to look very rosy compared to now. We have a handful of potential international players coming through, that's it, and they are ready.

So the big question is will Mukuhulani and co do something, if the situation of the game become such poor? If I were him, I would do everything in my power to bring back those Zimbos playing oversea. I would go entice and assure those talented kids to come back and play for the country coz AT THE END OF THE DAY it is all about money and a competent and good Zimbabwe team means nothing but fat pockets to these thugs at ZC.

Like they say " do not kill the cow if you want to enjoy the milk ", these crooks may have some tricks up their sleeve to survive the cow.

lobsang
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:46 am

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by lobsang »

secretzimbo wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:30 pm
Sloandog has got it in a nutshell really. BT/Willo/Ervine grew up in a world class school and junior system. It just doesn't exist here anymore.

The players coming through have got the natural talent, and maybe the mindset too. But our system will hold them back unless there is fundamental change pretty soon.
Agreed but these Afghans who are plying their trade in BBL, IPL, CPL, VITALITY BLAST and PSL have come through way worse system these young Zim kids. I think it all boils down to the hard work once you get to have grip on the basics of the game. It is not wrong to liken a budding cricketer to a budding writer coz most of the great writers first learned the language with the help of teachers and then they master the language with their diligence and effort on their own.

User avatar
zimbos_05
Posts: 3057
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:00 am

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by zimbos_05 »

Is no one seeing the stupidity in saying, "it's in the best interests of Mukhulani to keep cricket alive so he can keep getting money"?

This should never be about him. Administrators are not the people who should be on the forefront. They should be doing everything for the players and the fans. Our problem is summed up in that one sentence.

When the rebel players left, we had players coming through a world class set up, hence why they were so good and we did not drop off as drastically, but the reality is that the players coming through the system now are not coming through that same set up, so they will plateau as many have before them. Even Hammy who came through the world class set up, plateaued. He should really be doing so much more in his role, but isn't.

The mention about the afghans, yes they came from a poorer set up and they worked hard, but they had big investment in them. Now that a lot of them play in T20 leagues around the world, they are constantly getting world class coaching and facilities, plus they are based in UAE where the facilities are so much better than Zim.

TapsC2
Posts: 2554
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:40 pm

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by TapsC2 »

People forget how terrible we were from 04 to like 2010. A good 5 or 6 years of rubbish with our only wins coming against the likes of Kenya. I remember showing that it took the big 5(Hami included) almost 5 years to become consistent. I remember it took ages for Williams to start scoring big. Ervine and Raza came into the system much later and were more mature and that's why it didn't take them as long.

I think batsmen need time. Lots of time. Batsmen of our level. Kids like Wes are playing a lot of games. He will mature and improve. He will play 50 international games before he turns 22. He is on 37 right now. Burl is 27 and he has played just 60 international games. Wes is on the samematche experience path as the likes of Hami, Williams and BT. Add 2 imports and we will be fine

I believe the strategy now is to get maybe 7 players on that Hami level instead of 4 world class players and 3 passengers. Another 18 months with the experienced players and they will learn a lot.

In 2004 it was a complete mess. It was like making Wes captain and having Steven Saul, Mpofu and Kaia in Sri Lanka right now. The kids are learning, absorbing so much information. Just the way even Regis orders them around, warning them about the over rate. Those little things. They are learning.

In 2004 they learnt on the job. We will also have much better and decently experienced bowlers in 18 months. They just threw Panyangara and co in there in 2004 because they had beaten Australia u19. Had Panyangara grinded the way Ngarava had to just to be in the team he would have finished with even better stats. Ngarava also took 5 wickets against SA u19. Things are very different this time.

lobsang
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:46 am

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by lobsang »

zimbos_05 wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:58 am
Is no one seeing the stupidity in saying, "it's in the best interests of Mukhulani to keep cricket alive so he can keep getting money"?

This should never be about him. Administrators are not the people who should be on the forefront. They should be doing everything for the players and the fans. Our problem is summed up in that one sentence.

When the rebel players left, we had players coming through a world class set up, hence why they were so good and we did not drop off as drastically, but the reality is that the players coming through the system now are not coming through that same set up, so they will plateau as many have before them. Even Hammy who came through the world class set up, plateaued. He should really be doing so much more in his role, but isn't.

The mention about the afghans, yes they came from a poorer set up and they worked hard, but they had big investment in them. Now that a lot of them play in T20 leagues around the world, they are constantly getting world class coaching and facilities, plus they are based in UAE where the facilities are so much better than Zim.
Well I am not saying that Zimbabwe cricket should be all about Mukuhulaniand and co, I am just telling the ground realities about the situation of the game in the country . The administration will only care if there is money to be made for themselves by fielding a competitive team that can take them to global ICC events and be able to beat the lower ranked teams like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and Ireland more often than not.

Regarding the afghan players, how did they get to play in such big T20 leagues if they were not talented and good at this level. You are saying as if they were recruited as a rookie with some raw talents by those franchises to nurture and improve their games.
Trust me these Afghans came through way worse system than the current Zim kids. Some people here are crying as if cricket is taught through some very esoteric and mythical methods. If you understand the basics of any mechanism, you will learn how it works on your own. These Afghans learnt the game on their own in their war-torn country.

lobsang
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:46 am

Re: 2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

Post by lobsang »

TapsC2 wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:56 am
People forget how terrible we were from 04 to like 2010. A good 5 or 6 years of rubbish with our only wins coming against the likes of Kenya. I remember showing that it took the big 5(Hami included) almost 5 years to become consistent. I remember it took ages for Williams to start scoring big. Ervine and Raza came into the system much later and were more mature and that's why it didn't take them as long.

I think batsmen need time. Lots of time. Batsmen of our level. Kids like Wes are playing a lot of games. He will mature and improve. He will play 50 international games before he turns 22. He is on 37 right now. Burl is 27 and he has played just 60 international games. Wes is on the samematche experience path as the likes of Hami, Williams and BT. Add 2 imports and we will be fine

I believe the strategy now is to get maybe 7 players on that Hami level instead of 4 world class players and 3 passengers. Another 18 months with the experienced players and they will learn a lot.

In 2004 it was a complete mess. It was like making Wes captain and having Steven Saul, Mpofu and Kaia in Sri Lanka right now. The kids are learning, absorbing so much information. Just the way even Regis orders them around, warning them about the over rate. Those little things. They are learning.

In 2004 they learnt on the job. We will also have much better and decently experienced bowlers in 18 months. They just threw Panyangara and co in there in 2004 because they had beaten Australia u19. Had Panyangara grinded the way Ngarava had to just to be in the team he would have finished with even better stats. Ngarava also took 5 wickets against SA u19. Things are very different this time.
Agreed, comparing 2004 players' exodus to the scenario where there would be no Williams, no Ervine and no Raza is silly to say that least. Burl, Madhevere, Shumba, Madande, Marumani, Bawa and Muzarabani they are all going to get to play against quality sides going forward and that will only improve their games right? And these kids were also not thrown into the deep water without experienced players around them right after playing under 19 world cups.

Post Reply