Zimbabwe vs Namibia | 5th T20I

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TapsC2
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Namibia | 5th T20I

Post by TapsC2 »

secretzimbo wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:44 am
Googly wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:09 am
We can't phase out under performing players because we don't have others knocking on the door, that's our perennial problem.
This 100000%.

Truth is most of the guys selected are the best that are available.
I agree on senior players always being given a long rope. With Craig I think the time will be after the 2024 world cup in T20s then I hope he can make it to the England test. There was an interview he once did where I realised he has targets and he will know when to retire.

Where I don't agree is with Wes. He has played 90 games for us now and averages 20 across all formats. Dig deeper and you will see in his 4 years his averages are as follows

2020- 33.4 from 11 games
2021-18.5 from 24 games
2022-18.4 from 36 games
2023- 18 from 19 games

It is not true that we don't have better players than this. They just don't have the same long rope as Wes does. An example I can think of is Kaia who is not a sure pick anymore but averages 28 this year. With Welch coming through I don't think Wes should still just be an automatic pick. That is a better player knocking on the door.

Shumba went on a similar run until he averaged 12 in a year. I hope they don't wait that long for Wes. What also surprises me is that they dropped a golden boy just like him before. Hami was regularly dropped. Hami was a much bigger prosepct too. Maybe they won't be able to protect him anymore if Welch Jr and Bennet score big this domestic season.

TapsC2
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Namibia | 5th T20I

Post by TapsC2 »

Why I used Kaia as an example because to me every time he has actually gotten in he gets to a point where he looks comfortable out there. How many times has Wes played a flawless innings until he gets out? He constantly offers opportunities to get him out. That is a serious weakness.

If they have to play him the least they can do for him is to tell him knock it around until he starts scoring 30s and 40s again. Stop yourself from playing the big shots for a few months. He is only 23. A senior player can hit themselves out of trouble. He is learning. They are killing him. He is on a 3 year poor run of form and the just expect him to get out there and miraculously get it right

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zimbos_05
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Namibia | 5th T20I

Post by zimbos_05 »

Andy would work as the director of cricket. The person who oversees the whole structure and development of the game in our country. Take Hammy out of the role and give it to Andy.

Let him work with Dave as the team coach. Bring in a new batting coach. A sports psychologist.

Until we get proper change, we can expect to keep seeing these losses to Namibia and we can't keep living off random wins every now and again.

Googly
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Namibia | 5th T20I

Post by Googly »

Not easy to nudge it around until you're on 30 or 40 unless it's to the detriment of the team. You can afford to do that as an opener up to a point, but after that some scoring shots are required.
Madhevere knows what to do, plus he'd have been told a hundred times. Depends which format as well obviously.
In 50 over he needs to limit his scoring areas and be disciplined about it. That's his problem right there, and it's also off-field.
It's not dissimilar in T20, you still have to have your scoring areas. He just plays a low percentage shot at the wrong time at the wrong delivery and he's not learning from it too fast. He's in the right team because he will get opportunities forever, even if someone else comes along that does better (currently unlikely). He's a gun fielder and an ok part time spinner so he will be thereabouts for ages.
I'd like to see him build some muscle so he can hit a longer ball. We see his talent regularly, but its not enough at this level. We need a degree of dependability.
He needs to play as many domestic games as possible and there he needs to learn to convert by being a lot more circumspect. It won't be long before a couple of young guys are nipping at his heels for his spot, if the playing field was level, which it isn't. :lol:

Zimbo I'm not sure why you're mentioning Flower? The top shelf here is full. Only a premature demise will free up a spot :lol: It's dead man's shoes.
Our players lack discipline in both batting and bowling. I think that much is clear. We also have a team full of players that on the international stage are average. I don't mean that badly, there are some unbelievable players in world cricket. We have average to good. We can do better with more disciplined performances but we're not setting the world alight too often. Enough to keep us frustrated and interested and wring our hands with what if's.
Mr Houghton has done well for us with not much to work with in my opinion. He's certainly created a better environment for our national players and allowed them to play without the pressure of shouting coaches and admin.
You don't need that along with the usual personal and game pressures. He will continue to be the right man for the job for a long time.
Our players need to toughen up and we will get better results.

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andrea lanzoni
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Namibia | 5th T20I

Post by andrea lanzoni »

secretzimbo wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:44 am
Googly wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:09 am
We can't phase out under performing players because we don't have others knocking on the door, that's our perennial problem.
This 100000%.

Truth is most of the guys selected are the best that are available.
To widen the pool from which hopng to have international quality players, there is to have a pool of really professional players dedicated to cricket 12 months a year.
With half of yearly contribution received from ICC you may have a bunch of 100-150 professional players who can make a living out of cricket in Zimbabwe.
With such a basis of professionals you may then be optimistic to harvest a competitive line-up for the national squad.

First give players an econimic sense to dedicate their life to sport, then argue about best coach for the national squad.
To this time the only thing that Zimbabwe has for sure is a really good and dedicated coach.

Googly
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Namibia | 5th T20I

Post by Googly »

I mostly agree with year round salaries. Then we get beaten by Namibia who are basically an amateur side.
Van Lingen had to take time off work to play. Has a full time job and then comes along and single handedly beats us twice. A tough hard working Dutchman.
You never hear that about us Zimbabweans :lol: We're too precious.
The year round guys probably need to be our best 50 and the proviso needs to be that they practice year round to a quality practice schedule. Gets complicated when guys get paying club gigs. Those UK club games mean you don't actually get to practice much, maybe twice a week.
Unfortunately if they ever did something like this you'd see some wrong guys getting the annual salary. Someone has to decide which players have a higher potential ceiling.

Theyre cramming in games here, back to back ones to save money and players don't get a chance to work on stuff between games. Most haven't adequately prepared pre-season and hence you don't see the improvements from year to year that you should.

Pat_Bee
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Namibia | 5th T20I

Post by Pat_Bee »

All year round wages with the ICC dollar, that’s crazy talk yo. Bata pointy shoes don’t come cheap.

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zimbos_05
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Namibia | 5th T20I

Post by zimbos_05 »

Googly wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 12:43 pm
Zimbo I'm not sure why you're mentioning Flower? The top shelf here is full. Only a premature demise will free up a spot :lol: It's dead man's shoes.
Our players lack discipline in both batting and bowling. I think that much is clear. We also have a team full of players that on the international stage are average. I don't mean that badly, there are some unbelievable players in world cricket. We have average to good. We can do better with more disciplined performances but we're not setting the world alight too often. Enough to keep us frustrated and interested and wring our hands with what if's.
Mr Houghton has done well for us with not much to work with in my opinion. He's certainly created a better environment for our national players and allowed them to play without the pressure of shouting coaches and admin.
You don't need that along with the usual personal and game pressures. He will continue to be the right man for the job for a long time.
Our players need to toughen up and we will get better results.
I mentioned Flower because he was brought up because he was brought up in the thread, so I was just adding my two cents to the discussions.

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