West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

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Kriterion_BD
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by Kriterion_BD »

sloandog wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:58 am
The West Indies are a much better side than they were between 2000 and 2014. They had some shocking series and were picking players simply not good enough.

They have some seriously talented lads playing in this side and they're showing they have some grit and some fight about them.

Mayers is only 28 and should look to cement his spot in the side now.
Braithwaite, Mayers, Da Silva, Bonner, and possibly Blackwood could fit into a full strenght Windies lineup. I guess its not as much of a 2nd string side as it initially looked. Then again chasing 400 to win a Test will make anyone look like a worldbeater.

Braithwaite
Campbell/Hope
Bravo
Bonner
Blackwood
Mayers
Da Silva

Could be their top order moving forward.
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by sloandog »

I still think Hetmyr or Pooran should be involved somewhere in the test side. Those boys are serious talents, probably the most talented better in the West indies right now.

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jaybro
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by jaybro »

The majority of those deliveries were aided by inconsistent turn and/ or bounce, Mehidy got Moeen with a good arm ball and the r/h lbw one was a bad shot, but you can't just look at the wicket taking deliveries either. If a pitch is playing as poorly as that one v England one was the batsman have no confidence that the ball will behave and are very tentative, often it's a bad ball or one that doesn't miss behave that bring the wicket because the batsman is so worried about the ball that's going roll along the ground or spit up at the gloves.

It was like the Zim 1st Test where Raza was bowling some awesome deliveries, but in the end he got wickets off some of his poorer deliveries. That test is a great example for you to look at through 'non-Bangladeshi glasses' That pitch was another slow low deck that got harder to bat on, Zimbabwe had the advantage of batting 1st and bowling last, where batting was at it's hardest. In that final innings Raza and Mavuta looked like Murali & Warne as they bowled BD out to win the test.

Fast forward a week on a better batting deck, Raza and Mavuta went for over 4 an over and took one wicket between them throughout the entire test. The Zim spinners were assisted by the deck at Syhlet but were found wanting at Mirpur when the pitch wasn't weighed in their favour.

The India v Australia series in India 2017 is another good example, the 1st Test India produced a real dust bowl which heavily favoured the spinners, Steve O'Keefe took 12-70 and Australia romped to a massive victory. The next test again favoured the spinners as Nathan Lyon took an 8 for in the 1st Innings, although Australia lost as batting last on such a poor wicket was impossible.

The next two Tests were played on fairly good wickets which had a much better balance between bat & ball, despite batting first in both tests Australia were unable to win either and struggled to bowl India out as the Aussie spinners struggled to cause the Indian players problems on pitches that weren't so favourable to them.

Now Nathan Lyon is a good spinner, I'm not putting him in the 'average bracket' because he has done well against India on all types of wickets, but the morale of the story is, that the worse the pitch is, the better it makes the bowler. It's not rocket science and to be fair is very obvious but some people get carried away with spinners when they taking 5 wickets to win a test on a 5th day rank turner. The good spinners can get it done on any surface, which Mehidy & Taijul have failed to do.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Lyon is one the best spinners in the world. I would say he's right up there with Ashwin and Jadeja, ahead of the likes of Yasir Shah and others. There actually aren't that many Test spinners going around with the resurgence in pace bowling around the world.

The bottom line is the 4 issues I highlighted are things Bangladesh will need to address if they want to get out of the bottom of the Test match table. I am curious to see what the numbers say when you divide Bangladesh's Test record into 3 phases (2000-2012), (2013-2017), and 2017-present. The first period was Bangladesh cutting their teeth at the top level. The second featured a competitive Bangladesh side at home. The most recent is where Bangladesh are stagnating.

2000-2012: 0 wins, 54 losses, 0 draws, batting average 20.93, bowling average 54.58
2013-2017: 3 wins, 11 losses, 8 draws, batting average 31.50, bowling average 49.43
2017-2021: 2 wins***, 6 losses, 1 draw, batting average 23.88, bowling average 54.43

***includes 2 wins vs full strength West Indies in 2018

These numbers indicate Bangladesh's recent problems stem from poor batting.

Bangladesh have to play at least 2 specialist seamers in home Tests. They can still fit in 3 spinners and make pitches that turn on days 4 and 5. But they should make wickets that are good for batting till day 4.
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by Kriterion_BD »

84-1 at lunch. Not good by the Bangladeshi spinners. Too many wide half trackers.

Additionally, the captain has got to put more close in catchers. There should always be 3 guys at bat-pad and slip with the rest of the 5 fielders saving 1 plus one guy covering the boundary (cover, point, midwicket, mid off, mid on, deep sweeper cover). We are trailing the series and we can't sit back and let them just bat without pressure.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:52 am
The majority of those deliveries were aided by inconsistent turn and/ or bounce, Mehidy got Moeen with a good arm ball and the r/h lbw one was a bad shot, but you can't just look at the wicket taking deliveries either. If a pitch is playing as poorly as that one v England one was the batsman have no confidence that the ball will behave and are very tentative, often it's a bad ball or one that doesn't miss behave that bring the wicket because the batsman is so worried about the ball that's going roll along the ground or spit up at the gloves.

It was like the Zim 1st Test where Raza was bowling some awesome deliveries, but in the end he got wickets off some of his poorer deliveries. That test is a great example for you to look at through 'non-Bangladeshi glasses' That pitch was another slow low deck that got harder to bat on, Zimbabwe had the advantage of batting 1st and bowling last, where batting was at it's hardest. In that final innings Raza and Mavuta looked like Murali & Warne as they bowled BD out to win the test.

Fast forward a week on a better batting deck, Raza and Mavuta went for over 4 an over and took one wicket between them throughout the entire test. The Zim spinners were assisted by the deck at Syhlet but were found wanting at Mirpur when the pitch wasn't weighed in their favour.

The India v Australia series in India 2017 is another good example, the 1st Test India produced a real dust bowl which heavily favoured the spinners, Steve O'Keefe took 12-70 and Australia romped to a massive victory. The next test again favoured the spinners as Nathan Lyon took an 8 for in the 1st Innings, although Australia lost as batting last on such a poor wicket was impossible.

The next two Tests were played on fairly good wickets which had a much better balance between bat & ball, despite batting first in both tests Australia were unable to win either and struggled to bowl India out as the Aussie spinners struggled to cause the Indian players problems on pitches that weren't so favourable to them.

Now Nathan Lyon is a good spinner, I'm not putting him in the 'average bracket' because he has done well against India on all types of wickets, but the morale of the story is, that the worse the pitch is, the better it makes the bowler. It's not rocket science and to be fair is very obvious but some people get carried away with spinners when they taking 5 wickets to win a test on a 5th day rank turner. The good spinners can get it done on any surface, which Mehidy & Taijul have failed to do.
Mehidy Miraz is now operating with a slip. Thats it. No short leg or silly point. Just one close in catcher in a match played at home on a "dustbowl". Of course Mehidy or Taijul will struggle in NZ or South Africa bowling to an ODI field.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by Kriterion_BD »

sloandog wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:11 pm
I still think Hetmyr or Pooran should be involved somewhere in the test side. Those boys are serious talents, probably the most talented better in the West indies right now.
Yeah Hetmyer for sure. Drop either Hope or even Blackwood.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by Kriterion_BD »

2 new batsmen at the crease, BD on top...lets see if the spinners get any support from Skip Mominul.
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jaybro
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by jaybro »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:53 am

Mehidy Miraz is now operating with a slip. Thats it. No short leg or silly point. Just one close in catcher in a match played at home on a "dustbowl". Of course Mehidy or Taijul will struggle in NZ or South Africa bowling to an ODI field.
They wouldn’t be bowling to ODI fields if they were bowling well lol, another point that they’re average spinners that their captains have to set such defensive fields unless the pitch is favouring them
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Re: West Indies in Bangladesh 2021

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:06 am
They wouldn’t be bowling to ODI fields if they were bowling well lol, another point that they’re average spinners that their captains have to set such defensive fields unless the pitch is favouring them
Sure, yeah. But even Murali or Warne would struggle bowling with an ODI field. You're going to give up some boundaries in a Test. When a captain has 5 slips he WANTS the batters to drive and if they get a couple of boundaries its part of the plan. Bangladesh play so much 50 over cricket that I think the captains instinctively go to ODI fields and feel that a run rate of 4 is an excellent holding job.

At any rate, 220-5 represents a decent bowling performance here. Spinners bowled much better lines in this innings, with the odd ball turning sharply. Windies scored at 3 an over in the first session, but only at a shade above 2 the rest of the day. The key will be to maintaining that pressure till lunch tomorrow, and Bangladesh should be into the tail.
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