Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by slcricfan1 »

sam_ahm wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:04 am
Pakistan have a very very easy draw for this WTC. Their away series are against WI, Ban, SLN, with due respect thats relatively easy than playing the likes of Australia or South Africa away. They've already won 2 away tests and lost 1.

Home series against AUS, ENG and NZL, they can surely win most games at home.

I think Pakistan have a great chance of making it to the WTC finals this time.
Yeah no doubt, they look very good

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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Pakistan's spin attack is weak. Their pace attack is good, but batting is still prone to collapse. They have an easy draw, but they still split the points with WI.

Regardless of the criticism, I think the WTC is pretty exciting even for the lower half of the teams. WI, SL, PAK, BAN can all go toe to toe with each other.
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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

sam_ahm wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:04 am
Pakistan have a very very easy draw for this WTC. Their away series are against WI, Ban, SLN, with due respect thats relatively easy than playing the likes of Australia or South Africa away. They've already won 2 away tests and lost 1.

Home series against AUS, ENG and NZL, they can surely win most games at home.

I think Pakistan have a great chance of making it to the WTC finals this time.
They will also have an extra advantage as many top players of these nations are going to pull out from playing in Pakistan

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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:41 pm
Pakistan's spin attack is weak. Their pace attack is good, but batting is still prone to collapse. They have an easy draw, but they still split the points with WI.

Regardless of the criticism, I think the WTC is pretty exciting even for the lower half of the teams. WI, SL, PAK, BAN can all go toe to toe with each other.
BAN is long way behind WI, SL & PAK. One or two draws cant place BD along with these sides. They have failed to capitalize their momentum in the game whenever they were in driver seat against the best sides.If BD gets chance in WTC, then same should be the criteria for atleast Zimbabwe to be in WTC.BD beat England & Aus by preparing square turner, Zim can do the same against Asian sides if they prepare green top with seam & swing friendly condition.

ICC should have balanced idea in selection of test teams for WTC

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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by sam_ahm »

Rajkumar Sharma wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:20 am
sam_ahm wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:04 am
Pakistan have a very very easy draw for this WTC. Their away series are against WI, Ban, SLN, with due respect thats relatively easy than playing the likes of Australia or South Africa away. They've already won 2 away tests and lost 1.

Home series against AUS, ENG and NZL, they can surely win most games at home.

I think Pakistan have a great chance of making it to the WTC finals this time.
They will also have an extra advantage as many top players of these nations are going to pull out from playing in Pakistan
Possible.

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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Rajkumar Sharma wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:41 am


BAN is long way behind WI, SL & PAK. One or two draws cant place BD along with these sides. They have failed to capitalize their momentum in the game whenever they were in driver seat against the best sides.If BD gets chance in WTC, then same should be the criteria for atleast Zimbabwe to be in WTC.BD beat England & Aus by preparing square turner, Zim can do the same against Asian sides if they prepare green top with seam & swing friendly condition.

ICC should have balanced idea in selection of test teams for WTC
India and Pakistan won't lose to ZIM on greentops. Beating lowest ranked Asian sides (BD or SL) on greentops isn't the same as beating top ranked non-Asian sides on spinning tracks (England, Australia). The teams that Bangladesh beat had batsmen like Root, Cook, Smith and Warner. Apart from cricketing factors, the importance of ENG/AUS is also far greater than lower ranked Asian sides.

I disagree. You're forgetting that BD beat a full Windies side 2-0 in 2018. The pitches may have been turning, but BAN still managed a 500 plus total during the series. The England series was played on turnng wickets, but they weren't minefields. BAN scored 300 in the third innings (a decent third innings score), and England were 100-0 in the fourth innings chase. You don't get to 100-0 on a minefield. It was poor batting and good bowling that cost them the match. You're also forgetting that BD drew a series 1-1 in Sri Lanka in 2017. Both of those Tests were played on standard wickets (SL scored 500+ in the first Test, and BD scored 450+ in the second).

The reason Bangladesh has struggled since the start of 2019 is largely due to the number of Tests missed by Tamim, Shakib, and Mushfiq in that span. When WTC was decided, BD had just drawn series against England, Australia, and Sri Lanka away. I think they had won more Tests against top sides than West Indies in that span.

Zimbabwe had a greentop vs Bangladesh last winter...Muzarabani took some wickets in that first hour, and then the pitch flattened out (greentops always flatten out) and BD won by a comfortable 200 run margin. New Zealand had a greentop for Bangladesh in 2017, and Bangladesh scored 600, although they lost they still lost the Test. Greentop won't help ZIM vs Pakistan or India. That leaves Sri Lanka alone and I think Lakmal, Chameera, Lahiru would be tough to face on a greento for ZIM.

If you take all the teams at full strength, you will see the gap between BD and WI/SL is very small. Slightly larger with PAK/SA.
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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:26 pm
Rajkumar Sharma wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:41 am


BAN is long way behind WI, SL & PAK. One or two draws cant place BD along with these sides. They have failed to capitalize their momentum in the game whenever they were in driver seat against the best sides.If BD gets chance in WTC, then same should be the criteria for atleast Zimbabwe to be in WTC.BD beat England & Aus by preparing square turner, Zim can do the same against Asian sides if they prepare green top with seam & swing friendly condition.

ICC should have balanced idea in selection of test teams for WTC
India and Pakistan won't lose to ZIM on greentops. Beating lowest ranked Asian sides (BD or SL) on greentops isn't the same as beating top ranked non-Asian sides on spinning tracks (England, Australia). The teams that Bangladesh beat had batsmen like Root, Cook, Smith and Warner. Apart from cricketing factors, the importance of ENG/AUS is also far greater than lower ranked Asian sides.

I disagree. You're forgetting that BD beat a full Windies side 2-0 in 2018. The pitches may have been turning, but BAN still managed a 500 plus total during the series. The England series was played on turnng wickets, but they weren't minefields. BAN scored 300 in the third innings (a decent third innings score), and England were 100-0 in the fourth innings chase. You don't get to 100-0 on a minefield. It was poor batting and good bowling that cost them the match. You're also forgetting that BD drew a series 1-1 in Sri Lanka in 2017. Both of those Tests were played on standard wickets (SL scored 500+ in the first Test, and BD scored 450+ in the second).

The reason Bangladesh has struggled since the start of 2019 is largely due to the number of Tests missed by Tamim, Shakib, and Mushfiq in that span. When WTC was decided, BD had just drawn series against England, Australia, and Sri Lanka away. I think they had won more Tests against top sides than West Indies in that span.

Zimbabwe had a greentop vs Bangladesh last winter...Muzarabani took some wickets in that first hour, and then the pitch flattened out (greentops always flatten out) and BD won by a comfortable 200 run margin. New Zealand had a greentop for Bangladesh in 2017, and Bangladesh scored 600, although they lost they still lost the Test. Greentop won't help ZIM vs Pakistan or India. That leaves Sri Lanka alone and I think Lakmal, Chameera, Lahiru would be tough to face on a greento for ZIM.

If you take all the teams at full strength, you will see the gap between BD and WI/SL is very small. Slightly larger with PAK/SA.

India & Pakistan lost in Zimbabwe when they were great force in 90s, most recently they defeated Pak in test in 2013 and also Bangladesh in 2012 in green top with bowling seaming all day around and Brian Vitori & Jarvis was exceptional. Bangladesh defeated Aussies & England in rank turner and its the only best way BD can defeat these sides, recently we saw same thing in T20s, against NZ & Aus. Test in Zimbabwe was played in flat track, nothing was seen except few overs at the start of the game. At present Harare & Bulawayo track is more like Asian tracks where spinners getting enough purchase.

Bangladesh in full strength also have disappointed, achieved nothing except neck to neck fights against SL, & WI both home & away. Bangladesh beats non asian teams by building rank turners but the same Bangladesh gets defeated by the Asian sides as the pitch not only offers turn but also develops conditions of reverse swing. If Zim follows Bangladesh policy and change their tracks, they could hurt the asian sides spcly Afghans, BD, SL & also WI, can surely put a demand for a place in WTC

Bangladesh had their moment but they failed to capitalize those situations and got defeated against top sides.Bangladesh cricket haven't moved away from Tamim, Shakib & Mushfiq despite winning Under 19 world cups.Biggest reason for their poor show in test is not picking domestic performers. Shadman, Saif had 2 years now in Test played less but didnt looked to have that grill of test cricket in facing top bowlers.Mominul known for playing long innings is also struggling for long time now.

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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Rajkumar Sharma wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:46 am


India & Pakistan lost in Zimbabwe when they were great force in 90s, most recently they defeated Pak in test in 2013 and also Bangladesh in 2012 in green top with bowling seaming all day around and Brian Vitori & Jarvis was exceptional. Bangladesh defeated Aussies & England in rank turner and its the only best way BD can defeat these sides, recently we saw same thing in T20s, against NZ & Aus. Test in Zimbabwe was played in flat track, nothing was seen except few overs at the start of the game. At present Harare & Bulawayo track is more like Asian tracks where spinners getting enough purchase.
The 90s was nearly 20 years before the WTC was finalized in 2017. 20 years is too long a gap to decide those kinds of things. If Bangladesh are guilty of anything, its that they hit some form just at the right time, winning 2 Tests in the months leading up to the formation of the WTC.

At the end of the day, England and Australia are big teams and had big name players like Root, Cook, Smith, Warner, and Cummins when they lost to Bangladesh. You expect guys like Root or Smith and others to be able to bat even on turning wickets. But the wickets in the England and Australia series weren't that bad. They weren't flat, but teams weren't getting bowled out for under 150 runs either.

Bangladesh had their moment but they failed to capitalize those situations and got defeated against top sides.Bangladesh cricket haven't moved away from Tamim, Shakib & Mushfiq despite winning Under 19 world cups.Biggest reason for their poor show in test is not picking domestic performers. Shadman, Saif had 2 years now in Test played less but didnt looked to have that grill of test cricket in facing top bowlers.Mominul known for playing long innings is also struggling for long time now.
For the past few series, the selections have been much better. The problem has been Mushy, Tamim, Shakib have played very few Tests together in the past 3-4 years.

Saif is a domestic performer. He has a FC average of 44+ or something. The problem has been not picking guys with domestic performance + the tools to succeed at the top level.

We are moving in the right direction by bringing in Yasir Ali, Mahmudul Hasan Joy, and giving chances to guys like Shanto and Shadman.
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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:31 am
Rajkumar Sharma wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:46 am


India & Pakistan lost in Zimbabwe when they were great force in 90s, most recently they defeated Pak in test in 2013 and also Bangladesh in 2012 in green top with bowling seaming all day around and Brian Vitori & Jarvis was exceptional. Bangladesh defeated Aussies & England in rank turner and its the only best way BD can defeat these sides, recently we saw same thing in T20s, against NZ & Aus. Test in Zimbabwe was played in flat track, nothing was seen except few overs at the start of the game. At present Harare & Bulawayo track is more like Asian tracks where spinners getting enough purchase.
The 90s was nearly 20 years before the WTC was finalized in 2017. 20 years is too long a gap to decide those kinds of things. If Bangladesh are guilty of anything, its that they hit some form just at the right time, winning 2 Tests in the months leading up to the formation of the WTC.

At the end of the day, England and Australia are big teams and had big name players like Root, Cook, Smith, Warner, and Cummins when they lost to Bangladesh. You expect guys like Root or Smith and others to be able to bat even on turning wickets. But the wickets in the England and Australia series weren't that bad. They weren't flat, but teams weren't getting bowled out for under 150 runs either.

Bangladesh had their moment but they failed to capitalize those situations and got defeated against top sides.Bangladesh cricket haven't moved away from Tamim, Shakib & Mushfiq despite winning Under 19 world cups.Biggest reason for their poor show in test is not picking domestic performers. Shadman, Saif had 2 years now in Test played less but didnt looked to have that grill of test cricket in facing top bowlers.Mominul known for playing long innings is also struggling for long time now.
For the past few series, the selections have been much better. The problem has been Mushy, Tamim, Shakib have played very few Tests together in the past 3-4 years.

Saif is a domestic performer. He has a FC average of 44+ or something. The problem has been not picking guys with domestic performance + the tools to succeed at the top level.

We are moving in the right direction by bringing in Yasir Ali, Mahmudul Hasan Joy, and giving chances to guys like Shanto and Shadman.
But why Raqibul, Naeem Islam, Taibur & Pinak has been ignored despite performing in domestic. Is Age an assue of seniors for their comeback ?

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Re: Pakistan tour of Bangladesh| World Test Championship 2021-23 |[ 3T20Is & 3 test ]

Post by cricket_22001 »

Is Age an assue of seniors for their comeback ?

I think the answer is yes.
Looking at some of the regular names in the just finished NCL, I offer the following;
Tushar Imran, born 1983 test career 2002-2007
Junaid Siddique born 1987 test career 2008-12
Naeem Islam born 1986, test career 2008-11
Raqibul Hasan born 1987, test career 2008-11
Jahurul Islam born 1986, test career 2010-13
Anamul Haque born 1992, test career 2013-14
Nasir Hossain born 1991, test career 2011-17

Now all these players had their career finished by their mid-twenties. They had varying success in their careers, eg Tushar & Anamul end with test batting averages less than 10. Junaid, Naeem & Nasir all have registered a test century.
But after been given the opportunity & then discarded, these players have scored heavily at domestic level. There seems to be very little appreciation that a player can go back to grass roots, understand what is expected at the highest level & learn more about their own game to come back as a better player for a second chance. That second chance doesn't occur. Instead, Bangladesh expect the next big thing from the under 19's to come good. Or keep selecting players such as Mahmudullah, who ended with useful figures but was being called for to be axed. Mithun Ali probably deserved his call up but couldn't really deliver. Mossadek Hossain is different. He really hasn't had a decent run given eye issues & injury. He has wonderful stats but you don't trust him to put jam on his morning toast for fear he will damage himself with the butter knife.
From 2012/13-2019/20, Bangladesh created the Bangladesh Cricket League(BCL). It is a 4 team zonal competition with divisional teams amalgamated to create a higher standard FC comp. The NCL in the past has been referred to as "picnic cricket". But I don't know its standing now.
All of the above have healthy BCL careers, as well as NCL careers. In fact, around 2017 Tushar Imran was scoring so heavily a second chance almost came his way. I can recall him being selected in a squad but not getting a game.
The beginning of the BCL is important. Bowlers who dominate at NCL level seem to have to work harder at BCL. I refer to spinners like Sunjamul Islam, Enamul Haque & Saqlain Sajib. Maybe its the pitches, higher standard or time of year (usually March-May). Not too sure.
But when the BCL started there was a shift by the authorities regarding A tours. Between 2001-2011 Bangladesh A toured the West Indies, South Africa, Zimbabwe & England more than once, as well as Asia.
Since 2014/15, Bangladesh A or emerging players or the like have only played in Asia except for the South Africa/Zimbabwe tour of 2015/16. This hardly gives any player the opportunity to understand what is required to play overseas. Bangladesh is touring South Africa next year. we all know what happened last time they visited in 2017/18.
Next post we can discuss Bangladesh's discarded leg spinners.

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