Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:49 pm
It’s really hard to understand on what grounds they were given test status?

They don’t seem to have the facilities

They don’t have a deep player pool

They don’t have a first class competition

They don’t seem to have the interest from the general population to actually fund the growth of the game
They had a FC system in place before COVID. The board kind of used COVID to cancel it and save money and focus on white ball cricket.

They do have decent player depth...their young players like Tector and Tucker are doing quite well. Ditto for Josh Little and a couple other bowlers.

They have a decent amount of interest. There always seems to be a small but impassioned crowd at their home games. They even have some fans rocking up in Dhaka for this Test (probably expats or diplomatic staff).
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jaybro
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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by jaybro »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:51 am

They had a FC system in place before COVID. The board kind of used COVID to cancel it and save money and focus on white ball cricket.

They do have decent player depth...their young players like Tector and Tucker are doing quite well. Ditto for Josh Little and a couple other bowlers.

They have a decent amount of interest. There always seems to be a small but impassioned crowd at their home games. They even have some fans rocking up in Dhaka for this Test (probably expats or diplomatic staff).
I do remember they had a 2 or 3-day comp going a while back, but they haven’t in a very long time so surely at times point that becomes an issue?

They have some really good players like Tector, Tucker & Little, but depth isn’t your first XI, it’s the players underneath pushing for a spot.

You only have to look at Dockrell & Kane, both were bowlers then have turned into batsman for the national team without really being exceptional batsman.

There are Irish all over the world, so it’s no surprise to see a sprinkling of green at any fixture. But overall the game isn’t that popular in Ireland.

It’s ok to agree with me sometimes Kriterion
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2023 2:10 am


It’s ok to agree with me sometimes Kriterion
LOL, we do tend to disagree on a lot. Its all in the name of debate and discussion though.

You're right about the depth issue. But as long as Ireland can keep their baseline performance and not pull a Kenya or Bermuda (two teams that went into freefall) or even a Canada - who went from being a top 14 side to like 20th plus, they must have some depth and/or a system thats working. The guys who are first team today (Tector, Tucker) were the depth guys in the A side two or three years ago. So I think its doing an injustice to say they have no depth, because Ireland have remained a top tier Associate ever since their ascent in 2006-07.

I mean they are pushing Bangladesh hard at a venue where Bangladesh nearly beat India just 4 months ago. And they are doing it with their next gen of players (none of the glory guys from circa 2010, nor even Stirling or Dockrell and Co).
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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Day 4 is going to the final day...going to be a glorious day of cricket for one side, and a gut wrenching one for the other. But its been a great game of cricket.

Interesting to note that Bangladesh employed what I am dubbing Baaghball (baagh = tiger in Bengali) in the first innings, batting at run rate in excess of 4.5 an over. Some fans have criticized it saying we only batted 80 overs against the weakest bowling attack in recent Test history. Personally, I think its great. Play on merit. I am sure Bangladesh will bat at standard run rate of 3 or less runs per over in the 4th innings chase.
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cricket_22001
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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by cricket_22001 »

I'll start with the history that Graeme Hick qualified for England during the 80's. Then the ICC granted Zimbabwe test status because as South Africa were coming back into the international arena & the ICC felt cricket would die in Zimbabwe with players exiting the country for greater exposure.
One of the most cynical moves by the ICC when England & Australia were effectively in charge as Zimbabwe had applied for test status in the 1980s.
I hope John Ward can confirm the above & my memory is not fading.

Now, we fast forward to Ireland. I'm thinking the reasoning was the same.
The ICC had developed the Inter Continental Cup where Ireland & Afghanistan were dominant. They also qualified for the more expansive World Cups.
Players like Morgan, Rankin & Joyce were in the county system, then chose to play for England.
Niall O'brien, Kevin O'Brien, Porterfield, Wilson, Shane Poynter, Andrew Poynter, Greg Thompson, Dockrell, Stirling, McCarter, McCarthy, Chase & Adair all had exposure to the county system. Also, ex pats like Trent Johnston & Jeremy Bray left the Sydney grade competition & forged FC careers in those IC Cup days. Ireland also had a bloke called Warren Deutrom in its admin. I suppose he could be regarded as the Irish Alwyn Pichanick by building the Irish cricket profile.
So, by giving a country that had played FC cricket since the 19th century test status, it was probably felt more ex pats (or displaced Saffers) would bulk up Irish player resources. As stated in a post earlier, they developed their Inter Provincial system which seems to be based on the LC in the mid 90s.
This system was formed in 2013 & got FC status in 2017.
2019 from memory was a exceedingly wet summer in Ireland with many fixtures abandoned. I believe they took a real financial hit. Then Covid hit & they were given a leave pass by the ICC from red ball cricket (rightly or wrongly).
I suppose it's ironic they are looking to play tests at Bristol. The ICC gave test status to Afghanistan & there was no hope anyone would tour that country. At least the Afghans keep a FC system going thus meeting the most basic criteria for the premium ICC bucks.
A really sad aspect is why the major countries can't incorporate fixtures to the lesser countries, eg this years Ashes in England, play a test in Ireland. Go to South Africa, play in Zimbabwe, go to Pakistan/India/Sri Lanka/ Bangladesh, have a test against the Afghans.
But the attitude is cancel lesser fixtures as Oz did in India recently. Not even a practice match in the so called excellent preparation.

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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Mcbrine falls. Was really hoing he'd get a 100, but not much more.

138 I think the target for BD. If Ireland can take 4-5 wickets they will really fell they gave a good account of themselves, but perhaps also rue their top order batting failure in the 2nd inngins. A grand total of 5 runs scored between Commins, McCullum, Balbirnie, and Campher. Had they each scored 20 apiece, that would have given the Irish well over 200 to defend!
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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by Kriterion_BD »

With scores of 0 and 4, Shanto's average in home Tests now falls to 14.50.

Must surely be the poorest home average for anyone who's played as many Tests as he has.
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secretzimbo
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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by secretzimbo »

jaybro wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2023 2:10 am
Kriterion_BD wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:51 am

They had a FC system in place before COVID. The board kind of used COVID to cancel it and save money and focus on white ball cricket.

They do have decent player depth...their young players like Tector and Tucker are doing quite well. Ditto for Josh Little and a couple other bowlers.

They have a decent amount of interest. There always seems to be a small but impassioned crowd at their home games. They even have some fans rocking up in Dhaka for this Test (probably expats or diplomatic staff).
I do remember they had a 2 or 3-day comp going a while back, but they haven’t in a very long time so surely at times point that becomes an issue?

They have some really good players like Tector, Tucker & Little, but depth isn’t your first XI, it’s the players underneath pushing for a spot.

You only have to look at Dockrell & Kane, both were bowlers then have turned into batsman for the national team without really being exceptional batsman.

There are Irish all over the world, so it’s no surprise to see a sprinkling of green at any fixture. But overall the game isn’t that popular in Ireland.

It’s ok to agree with me sometimes Kriterion
The game is relatively popular in Ireland at a club level. The latest board figures claim that 52,000 people had some involvement in cricket in 2021 (all ages, including players/coaches/scorers/umpires/groundsmen/club officials etc) which is a vast figure compared to Zimbabwe, and from a much smaller population. They also have over 100 registered clubs. And they are proper clubs too, not paper teams made up on the spot like we have in our leagues.

It seems that they struggle to convert that interest into support for the national team. They get decent crowds at home when they play India or Pakistan but as usual most of those fans are supporting the visitors. They certainly wouldn't be getting 12,000 enthusiastic fans to the ground for an ODI against the Netherlands, like we recently did. They would probably struggle to get 500 or so.

That's not necessarily an issue anyway.

The other thing is that I've watched a fair bit of their domestic List A and T20 online over the past couple of years and I believe the standard of that to be noticeably lower than what we have here in Zim. So although they have the mass participation at lower levels they don't seem to produce as many good cricketers as we do somehow.

I do have a gripe with them having received their full ICC allocation for the past 4 years despite not fulfilling most of the Full Member criteria. They haven't held a First Class competition since 2019 and until this week also hadn't played a Test in that time. Every other full member has managed to hold first class competitions 'despite covid' so it's not an excuse.
You have to consider the Netherlands - who were also in the Super League, were in T20 World Cups and ODI World Cup qualifiers, and have basically had an identical fixture list to Ireland over the past three years - yet Ireland have received almost 20x the amount of ICC funding. How is that justified?

Either way I am glad they are back playing Tests this year and I hope they see their domestic first class return too, which is a requirement of Full Member status.

Although then you look at the ICC ignoring half the membership criteria for Afghanistan too and it's hardly a surprise that they turn a blind eye to Ireland as well.

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by Kriterion_BD »

secretzimbo wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:51 am
I do have a gripe with them having received their full ICC allocation for the past 4 years despite not fulfilling most of the Full Member criteria. They haven't held a First Class competition since 2019 and until this week also hadn't played a Test in that time. Every other full member has managed to hold first class competitions 'despite covid' so it's not an excuse.
You have to consider the Netherlands - who were also in the Super League, were in T20 World Cups and ODI World Cup qualifiers, and have basically had an identical fixture list to Ireland over the past three years - yet Ireland have received almost 20x the amount of ICC funding. How is that justified?

Either way I am glad they are back playing Tests this year and I hope they see their domestic first class return too, which is a requirement of Full Member status.

Although then you look at the ICC ignoring half the membership criteria for Afghanistan too and it's hardly a surprise that they turn a blind eye to Ireland as well.
This is the one of the very few areas in which my usually left-leaning beliefs take a sharp turn to the right.

I firmly support the unequal application of the law in favor of the the cricketing elites (ie Full Member nations). Ireland and Afghanistan proved they were a cut above the rest of the Associate world throughout various World Cricket Leagues and InterContinental Cups for the better part of a decade and got elected to Test status. Since they have it, I find the idea of stripping that status to be abhorrent, except in extreme circumstances.

To me the most important questions are: how is the quality of their Men's team's cricket? and what are they (the board) doing with the ICC funds they receive?

I think both the Irish and the Afghans are doing OK on both fronts. I am sure there is probably some corruption with the ACB, but a) it isn't affecting the performance of their national team and b) its probably not much different than the BCB or the PCB.

In my opinion, the ZC have failed those two questions more egregiously than Cricket Ireland or the ACB over the past 20+ years.

As far as funding for the Associates goes, this is where my lefty beliefs come back. Why is there a question of how much money Afghanistan and Ireland gets, when you should be worried about how much money the Big 3 gobble up by just playing cricket amongst themselves? In my opinion, the ICC Test fund needs to be brought back, and if need be a wholly separate fund for Ireland, Afghanistan, and Zimbabwe.

The one thing the ICC seems to be doing fairly well over the past 20 odd years is their institution of regular competition for the Associates via the old World Cricket League system and now with the League 2 and Challenge Leagues. This gives the teams ranked from around 13-30, regular cricket, a firm fixture list, and a real chance to improve. Its not by random accident that Associate cricket is stronger now than its ever been before. Netherlands, Scotland, Oman, Nepal, USA are all far stronger than leading Associates were back in the 90s or the 2000s. But they need decent funding and it needs to come from the bigger Full Members, because thats where all the money is. Don't take money from Ireland or Afghanistan (the ICC's middle class so to speak), in the name of helping the poor (the Associates).
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secretzimbo
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Re: Ireland in Bangladesh 2023 | Test, ODI, and T20I series

Post by secretzimbo »

‘Status’ in cricket is disastrous in general and it shouldn’t exist in any format.

But seeing as it does, and seeing as the ICC stipulates that to have full member status you HAVE to comply with certain criteria…………then the rules should be implemented equally for all.

Ireland should have had their full allocation funding suspended or reduced over the past three years for literally contravening the membership criteria.

Afghanistan should NEVER have got status in the first place and should certainly have it stripped now due to their continued willingness to contravene the criteria.


Either;
Get rid of Status entirely.
Or have it, and enforce the criteria and regulations

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