Harbhajan Singh affair

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eugene
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Harbhajan Singh affair

Post by eugene »

It disappoints me that Harbhajan seems to have got away virtually unpunished for making racist remarks towards Andrew Symonds. Perhaps in future to avoid punishment for on-field offences teams should just threaten to go back home. It seems India is the new power in world cricket and now influence most decisions being made. Having Steve Bucknor sent home was another example. I bet if a country like Zimbabwe or New Zealand complained the ICC wouldn't have acted.

I feel a scenario where the majority of power in the cricket world rests with India is a bad one. The BCCI have continously shown that they dont have the best interests of cricket at heart and are in it for financial gain.

I am sure there will be people who will disagree with this post. I would be interested to hear other people's thoughts.
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maehara
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Re: Harbhajan Singh affair

Post by maehara »

Judge is due to issue his reasons for his decision later today, I believe - it'll be interesting to see what he says. BCCI's stance through this of "do what we say or we're going home" has been unacceptable, to me. But...

From what's been reported so far, Mike Proctor seems to have handed out the original ban on no evidence other than the word of the Australia players. India players gave conflicting evidence, and he seems to have ignored that. Both sides would have had the natural instinct to support they're own player, so why was credence given to the Aussie players and not to the Indians? The thing with justice is that there's a process that should be followed - finding Harbhajan guilty of a fairly serious offence on nothing more than hearsay isn't justice, regardless of what he did or didn't say.

Personal opinion comes into that as well - I'm white, I don't find the word "monkey" offensive or racist. Who decides that it is? If Harbhajan intended it as your normal sledging - which the Aussies are just as quick to dish out - but an Aussie chose to take it as a racist comment, is that Harbhajan's fault? Why is an alleged 'racist' comment considered worse than some of the other taunts and insults they throw out in the course of a match, which by most accounts can be pretty harsh and personal?

Bottom line: what's needed here is a blanket ban on on-field taunts and sledging. The ICC make so much of the Spirit of Cricket - sledging is completely against the Spirit of Cricket, and it needs to stop. Otherwise there'll be more opportunities for this sort of incident to happen in the future.

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Re: Harbhajan Singh affair

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Re: Harbhajan Singh affair

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Personal opinion comes into that as well - I'm white, I don't find the word "monkey" offensive or racist. Who decides that it is? If Harbhajan intended it as your normal sledging - which the Aussies are just as quick to dish out - but an Aussie chose to take it as a racist comment, is that Harbhajan's fault? Why is an alleged 'racist' comment considered worse than some of the other taunts and insults they throw out in the course of a match, which by most accounts can be pretty harsh and personal?
Harbhajan called Symonds a monkey in India during the ODI series last year. Symonds chose not to take it further then, but before this series, the Indian players were briefed on racist terms and "monkey" was among them. The fact that he did it again shows how little respect he has for Symonds.

I find it disgusting that Harbhajan did it. The front page of the newspaper showed a smug Singh walking out of the hearing - I hardly think India is flavour of the month at the moment, I'd say there are quite a few countries disappointed with the BCCI's behaviour throughout this - they have shown their true colours.

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Re: Harbhajan Singh affair

Post by maehara »

brmtaylor.com admin wrote:The fact that he did it again shows how little respect he has for Symonds.
That's the issue, though - there's no positive proof as to what he said or didn't. The people who claim he used the word "monkey" have a vested interest in backing Symonds. The people who claim he said something else have a vested interest in backing Singh. There are no clear recordings to back up either side, the umpires didn't hear anything... In pretty much any judicial / tribunal system, you can't find guilty on hearsay, and that's all both Proctor and Hansen had before them. Not good enough (although if the ICC had bothered to give the judge Singh's full record, he may still have gotten a stiffer sentence on the Level 2 offence).

I also have issues with "racially motivated <insert crime here>" being treated differently anyway. Crass & insulting comments are crass & insulting comments, regardless of the motivations behind them - we need to root them all out of the game, instead of trying to neatly categorise what's acceptable and what isn't. It should all be unacceptable - and if the rules had been written that way, I doubt we'd have seen this mess in the first place. If, on the other hand, sledging is somehow deemed acceptable, then let him say what he wants. There are far worse things to be called in this world than a ''monkey', and I'm sure both sides involved have used far worse in the past - they just got away with it as it wasn't deemed racist.
I hardly think India is flavour of the month at the moment, I'd say there are quite a few countries disappointed with the BCCI's behaviour throughout this - they have shown their true colours.
Can't argue with you on that one.. :)

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Re: Harbhajan Singh affair

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maehara wrote:
brmtaylor.com admin wrote:The fact that he did it again shows how little respect he has for Symonds.
That's the issue, though - there's no positive proof as to what he said or didn't. The people who claim he used the word "monkey" have a vested interest in backing Symonds. The people who claim he said something else have a vested interest in backing Singh. There are no clear recordings to back up either side, the umpires didn't hear anything... In pretty much any judicial / tribunal system, you can't find guilty on hearsay, and that's all both Proctor and Hansen had before them. Not good enough (although if the ICC had bothered to give the judge Singh's full record, he may still have gotten a stiffer sentence on the Level 2 offence).

I also have issues with "racially motivated <insert crime here>" being treated differently anyway. Crass & insulting comments are crass & insulting comments, regardless of the motivations behind them - we need to root them all out of the game, instead of trying to neatly categorise what's acceptable and what isn't. It should all be unacceptable - and if the rules had been written that way, I doubt we'd have seen this mess in the first place. If, on the other hand, sledging is somehow deemed acceptable, then let him say what he wants. There are far worse things to be called in this world than a ''monkey', and I'm sure both sides involved have used far worse in the past - they just got away with it as it wasn't deemed racist.
If we removed all insulting comments what a boring sport we would have. I think cricket is well past the idea of 22 gentlemen taking the fielding and having a cup of tea and a bite to eat at stumps. Cricket has become a multi-billion dollar corporation (or am I only thinking of the BCCI...) and a fiercely competitive one at that.

Just an example of what I mean, the famous Eddo Brandes comment "every time I **** your wife she gives me a biscuit" to McGrath's "Eddo why you so fat?" sledge. Some sledges/mental disintegration (in Waugh's words) are very, very funny, and I think most people know it isn't serious. But to sledge someone because of their skin colour is not on - it may have been acceptable 50 years ago, but it isn't now and surely every cricketer knows this :roll:

I think the key point here is that Symonds made it clear he doesn't want to be called a monkey. Harbhajan was stupid enough to say it again, obviously as a racial slur. It's not funny, it's not sledging - it's just mean and racist.

You say there is no solid evidence that he said it. I agree, there is no evidence he said it. Everyone knows he did though. The people who claim he did say the word is about half of the Australian team, the Indians who say he didn't are... Tendulkar, and even his best theory was that it was a phrase in a foreign language (yeah right), and the team manager (???) who must have supersonic hearing and be able to lip read from up in the pavilion.

Harbhajan should have been banned for 3 Tests like Procter's verdict was. I guarantee if it was any team other than the financial superpower Procter's decision would have stood. Likewise, if it was India vs England instead of Pakistan vs England in The Oval Test a while back, the result would have been overturned or Hair banned for life or sued or....

Money (ie. India) is the driving force behind cricket and the ICC aren't going to let anything get in the way of that.

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Re: Harbhajan Singh affair

Post by ©hinaman »

BCCI has given enough cause to generate hatred.
Is the hatred towards the Indian Board and its managers, or anything and everything Indian, including the players?

I am an Indian, and I believe I do not blindly support anything Indian. Being an Indian in the west, I know very well what racism really is, it does not have to be a spoken word. A word becomes racist only when it is used to derogate a person (or his race) based on their characteristics / features / manners or culture.

I am surprised that monkey has now become a racist word. We have always referred to mischievousness as being a 'monkey'. 'Cheeky monkey' is an accepted phrase. How does it become racist? Are we now reaching a stage where every player will be asked what is and what is not a racist word to each of them?

I agree that Symonds is the only non-white in the Australian team, would it be accepted as non-racist to call the other players monkeys? or if Symonds is not in the team, the monkey chants would suddenly become acceptable. There is much discussed about the crowd behaviour in India when they mimicked and chanted like monkeys.
Would you know if anything was said or done to this polite gentleman?

Image
That single finger will infuriate a whole nation who will give it back in any possible way they can when Australia is next in India.

Keeping BCCI aside, Mike Procter had no evidence to ban Harbhajan, but chose to accept Australian cricketers statements and not the Indians, that itself is a racist gesture, is it not?

The cricket world for decades was controlled a small group of nations, BCCI has successfully shifted the control away from the previous power holders. Who ever has the power will always bulldoze and have their way. That is human nature. Just like US are in Iraq.

So resentment towards BCCI doesn't make Harbhajan guilty, or anything and everything Indian to deserve hatred. Besides Cricket Australia di not backdown because of BCCI bullying, they backed down because of the fines they would incur if they did not honour contracts they had signed to sell TV broadcasting rights. Had it been the other way round, you would have seen BCCI doing exactly the same.

The bottomline is, the players can play competitive cricket without having to be the tea and crumpets gentlemen, and still not resort to insults and abuses of "sledging". If they do, they should also be man enough to take it on the chin when a "weed" turns around to call one of them a "monkey".
"If you don't help people who are in need, it's just not cricket" - Steve Waugh

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