[Match Thread] Zimbabwe v NewZealand (3rd ODI)

[Lostart]

Wow that was a great game, i was away on work and only caught a few bits of the early action on cricinfo. Looked good early on with the 3 wickets and then caught it with about 15 overs to g and thought we would be chasing about 270-280, wow was i wrong. Must have been a brutal last few overs. When i checked next we were 0-1 and i thought we were gonners.

Luckily i got home early and caught up with the action with Chigs and the man of the moment Waller going along well. It was a rollercoaster ride of highs and lows, and some really really awful shots. What were natsi and meth thinking?

I have only one problem, and that is our side is very unsettled. It looks like we are trying just about every player who shows a little promise. Waller has had a couple games in a row, and though he didn't go so well in the past he repaid that faith today. But i know we are looking for our best lineup. but we have been througha heck of a lot of players in the last year or so. What happened to Chatara, he was a golden boy on this forum a while ago? Players like Lamb and so on just not getting any chances, while other young players who have had 1 or 2 good seasons are being fast tracked to the national side. look it works in some cases but it also harms some players who aren't ready to take the step up. What we really need is more A tours to test out our younger players. Give them experience in overseas conditions and against quality opposition. I don't mean to slight our domestic level but an A tour would be a huge step up for our emerging players.

[Jemisi]

Things do seem a bit haphazard selection wise, although at least the core are not being mucked around with.

[gargamel]

Again our bowling let us down and it just shows that we lack depth and skill in that department it used to be the reverse now we cant bowl or field as we used to do in the past . I am struggling to see the roll the Prosper and Rayzor are playing in the team at the moment i dont see the point of playing the both of them they are no longer containing the batsman and they are not taking wickets so i think one of them has to be let go back into the first calss wilderness and we can have Meth in the squad for one of them.

[jimbo]

Kyle Mills injured and now wont be in test match vs Zimbabwe. Him and chris martin/Southee are the best zealand pacers and two are now missing. get better soon Kyle but surely good news for Zim

[Conant]

I haven't side tracked the wager Conant. I prefer for both of us to agree that it would be a stupid move on the part of the coaches and selectors to use Mushangwe in the Test period! If they do then someone needs to be fired! That's my opinion.

I really do not know, hhm. The omission of Prosper Utseya is almost certainly an indication that they may leave him out for the Test on Friday, but by virtue of the match being played in Bulawayo they're almost certainly playing two specialist spinners along with three seamers.

So with the absence of Graeme Creamer and Greg Lamb, whom are they left with to partner Ray Price. Natsai Mushangwe. Prosper He's very accurate with his leg spinners and offers a lot of variation.

I have just gone through First Class stats, in comparison with Graeme Cremer. It turns out they have precisely the same strike rate with the same average too. Prosper is more experienced yes, but Natsai might just be a worthy duck horse. At least for this Test. No, I do not think it’s a bad idea, hhm.

[sloandog]

First of all I believe the mature players are better and more equipped for this level, you and obviously quite a lot of other people believe otherwise. As it happens they haven't played so we can assess them and compare fairly but I've seen enough of all our youngsters to know they won't cut it anytime soon.

I want you to name all the 'mature' players in Zimbabwe FC Cricket Hhm. Because at the moment your argument has absolutely no substance because all our 'mature' players are our best players, and guess where they are...in the national team. Maybe except the injured lads like Lamb and Cremer, and Ewing who i agree should be given a chance sooner rather than later. (The only part i agree on with you).
Are you going to tell me, that Waller is not going to be able to cut it at this level ? having scored an aggressive 99* not out against New Zealand, and a gusty half century against a very solid Pakistan bowling attack, (both of which his knocks were under immense pressure). Mutizwa looks like he's going to improve game by international game too.

We need those other mature players to make us a more competitive side.

Tell another...

Duffin(only specialist opener we have in Zim FC)

Okay, yea, he's solid in defense....cough...silence....what now ? Yea nothing. He has no real scoring shots, he's overweight and he's a liability in the field. Are you going to say that Mawoyo isn't a genuine opener ? Or Sibanda ? Come on, think about what you're saying man.

,

Ewing(leader, middle order batsman&part-time spinner),

Yea he'd be a good pick, but he's not the player who was man. His bowling is almost gone, and he put a lot of weight on last time i saw him. However, i do think that he could provide some fireworks towards the end of an innings, and his batting technique isn't too bad actually.

Matsi, middle order bat, part-time spinner&Legend)

Legend ? mate come on. I have no problem with including Stuart, because he's gone away and worked hard, but it's just how he performs internationally...he doesn't. He gets his chance and messes up, in standard fashion. He'll never be able to do what Waller did, or Ervine against India last year on debut because he simply isn't as good as them. Who would you leave out if you were going to include him ? I'd feel so much more tense to see Stuart in, opposed to Ervine or Waller or even Mutizwa.

Rainsford

The guy has passed his best. All them wides he bowls in first class cricket, all those no balls....and no wickets! he doesn't deserve to be in the side. Picking Rainsford would be a HUGE backward step having seen the likes of Jarvis and Vitori. They both have the ability to take wickets, something Rainsford isn't doing at the moment. When we last saw him he was bairly touching 80Mph either. Both he, Panyangara and Mupariwa are the past, and the sooner you accept that the better.


I await your no doubt interesting reply...

[hhm]

In simple terms Zimdoggy - Waller happened! I admire his niftiness out in the middle. Would appreciate it more if he 'happened' a lot more often than not though! Particularly when it's not a dead rubber!

Sloandog thinks I'm either incredibly stubborn or blind, while eugene misses my logic. andybligz on the other hand argues that we should ignore the sequence of poor performance they will certainly display unfailingly, but be persistent because the boys will at some point eventually grow into success in the Test arena.

Well, Mr Sloan, I'd like to think I am neither. Perhaps consistent would be the most appropriate word. I am not easily blinded by once-off heroics in a less important and much weaker format of the game. Bangladeshis annihilated a far much stronger NZ line-up! One only needs to glance at their bowling lineup to understand why we would've been hard done by for failing to take advantage of that - which we duly did thankfuly! You see my dear friend, eugene, when you are exposed to a lot of FC cricket(not even Proteas) in a top tier cricket nation like SA (no doubt you are as well where you are), particularly if you are an individual who is/was familiar first hand with the level of cricket back home, then you begin to understand the extent of the gulf which exists between our players who we loosely hand the jerseys to under the false pretense that they are ready, in comparison to those who won't even be able to play for their nation due to limited opportunities. That is fact exacerbated by overseas youngsters who rock up in the foreign conditions of our local setup, and completely outplay our youngsters without any time for acclimatisation. The embarassment is even greater when I see the likes of Pak & NZ hand debuts to their young bowlers&batsmen who take to international cricket like a duck to water - claiming MOM awards along the way, while our 'youngsters' simply look out of their depth. I prefer to see them return as the refined article in 2-3 years, instead of stumble their way through horrendous stats before they look capable at this level. It does them no good to continue to intersperse two good performances with months of poorness. For the good of our future, that hard road should be travelled by those whom I constantly put forward.

Thankfully, Lostart acknowledges just how devalued the Zim cricekt jersey has become, and the need for our promising youngsters to do their growing elsewhere besides the global stage. I just wonder how much in agreement he is with my advocacy for the addition of a few these overweight/past-it mature players I 'rant' about at every opportunity.

Anyway, as I've said countless times, I won't be the one eating my words on this one gents. In the next few months I will note how often you guys rebuke these 'promising novices' and follow expectedly as the selectors drop them one after another. I know you won't disappoint me! Poor performances from these fellows will continue to be the case, and the team will ultimately have a more mature look about it as those responsible are forced to come to their senses. Let's see, the currently injured Vitori has been dropped already (while our visitors confidently throw in their youngsters in that very QSC which they've never seen they deliver), the same has happened to Jarvis, while Craig Ervine is probably still wondering what went wrong and if he is still in the frame. Soon Tino, Forster and Waller will also start appearing more frequently in the Logan Cup as they get found out one by one! You can all see it, funnily enough those milestones bear no significance to you. The fact that Ncube was plucked from nowhere ahead of Jarvis should at least tell you something It might not be permanent, but it's more than just a case of simply giving an opportunity in a dead-rubber to another youngster. To me it reeks of desperation and frustration on the part of the Coaches as some of the young jewels are really not shining!

QSC or not, you simply do not pick a second spinner for a TETS MATCH despite their lack of FC/A team experience for the sake of it Conant. If Utseya is not picked(which I hope is the case) then Price should be the sole spinner. Put in an extra batsman or seamer if you must instead. Afterall the best we can get is a draw either way, but a loss is more likely despite the amount of injuries NZ have.

Forgive me for coming across as one who denigrates our great Andy Flower good Doctor. While it may not be the case off it, he retains my utmost respect for his achievements in our behalf on the pitch. He will forever be a top cricketer. Many more belong to a rung above, but that should take nothing away from his achievements.

And who says Matsi isn't a legend?

[FlowerPower]

Flowerpower being Flowerpower will tend to confuse the matter by including players I haven't referred to for international cricket such as Hondo & Bligs, and splitting the groups of players but that's just him being him.

hhm right now Im the closest you have to a taker for your theory. Reread my post, I even say you DIDNT mention Bligs and Hondo was my own addition as stated I used names you had branded plus those two. Look I sort of see where you are going but said you need to convince me...

Sloandog lets be fair Matsi has worked hard and CURRENTLY he IS in better form than say Hami, and Ervine...certainly better than Ervine who Im sure will find his mojo again...but CURRENTLY he is not better than Matsi....

As for the bowlers I think the youngsters need an old head kind of like what Heath was to Mpofu back in 2005?...so I see the value in hhm's argument...especially in the test arena

PS its FlowerPower and not Flower power (a friend of mine )

[hhm]

hhm right now Im the closest you have to a taker for your theory. Reread my post, I even say you DIDNT mention Bligs and Hondo was my own addition as stated I used names you had branded plus those two. Look I sort of see where you are going but said you need to convince me...

Sloandog lets be fair Matsi has worked hard and CURRENTLY he IS in better form than say Hami, and Ervine...certainly better than Ervine who Im sure will find his mojo again...but CURRENTLY he is not better than Matsi....

As for the bowlers I think the youngsters need an old head kind of like what Heath was to Mpofu back in 2005?...so I see the value in hhm's argument...especially in the test arena.

Thank you FlowerPower.

I know it's you. That was mentioned to irk you a little bit. True you still need convincing, but glad to see you're warming up to the idea!

[ZIMDOGGY]

Hhm the thing you have to realize as well is that some of the cutter young players actually have more experience than the experienced guys .....

Craig ervine has played in a couple of tests - countless ODIs as has played in a world cup in front of 40,000 screaming curries.

He's more experienced than Ewing and duffin and is mire up to date than matsi.

I too, think Ewing deserves another shot somewhere however.