[Player of the Year] New Zealand v Zimbabwe - Test Match

[Jemisi]

Sure, I was only speaking relatively.

[FlowerPower]

I have lost all faith in these polls. They are very biased, and have very little to do with the said match/series. I have screamed my fingers to the bone on this keyboard to no avail. People just vote for whom they like for whatever reason, forget the game or series in question. For example, how Jarvis (and I have nothing against the lad, can get have six votes for having the worst average (120) with just one wicket to show for his toils, even the luckless Vitori had better figures...check for yourselves....certainly in the shorter formats he was much better, but Test, six votes???? Even Shingi, how do FIVE people think he deserves a vote, when all he had was one wicket to show? Frankly none of the bowlers deserved anything, or the batters except Regis for that matter...

So anyone believing these poles as a reflection of performance needs to think twice...this is just a popularity contest which has nothing to do with performance.

Do people actually understand what this is all about? Or maybe I have missed a point.

[hhm]

FlowerPower, a lot of what you have pointed out is true and I strongly agree with you in the case of Jarvis, but totally disagree when it comes to Shingi!

People also forget one thing - batsmen and bowlers are different i nterms of how you measure their performances! Batsmen are measured on runs, so even a 25 or 30(like Malcolm Waller), may for example come across as superior to the modest efforts of Jarvis & Shingi but it's not! Situations also count because a 30 from someone in the top 3, is as valuable as a 50 from someone batting from 4-6. Similarly 1st&2nd change seamers face the tougher task of trying to accomplish just as much with a ball that has lost it's gloss, against batsmen that are well set(considering that none of our bowlers are quite capable of swing bowling!

New ball bowlers are supposed to take early wickets and make the most of the new ball, Vitori & Jarvis didn't. They failed in the secondary aspect - restricting the runs. They weren't just poor there, they were extremely slow and ineffective it was embarassing to watch! Never has the world been subjected to such a poor showing, at Test level, in seam friendly conditions by a new ball pairing! Not in my lifetime!

Shingi is different. When he came the entire scene changed! Runs stopped flowing as freely, and as far as the bastmen were concerned the Test match began at that point! He was accurate, bowled way quicker than those two jokes, varied his pace intelligently and genuinely troubled the batsmen in his first 3 spells. Ultimately, he got a deserved wicket. All of which he achieved on his debut! His effort did not escape the notice of the reporters, most importantly, neither did it fail to impress the New Zealand captain.

Admittedly he fell away in his latter spells, tiring and coming against quality set batting, at a traditionally high scoring ground. He also chipped in with a brief quality knock, during which he dominated Regis, before persishing after helping us to avoid falling to what would have been our worst ever defeat! How can you then come and say Shingi does not deserve at least 5 votes when the New Zealand captain himself felt he was easily our best seamer, and that all they needed to do was improve on his model? You ignore the fact that Regis had two attempts and only came right at the second attempt, when an innings defeat was imminent and as you saw for yourself, their attack had taken it's foot off the pedal with 6 gone for 37!

My verdict is barring Regis&Shingi, who themselves were average, none of the other players deserve commendation. However, Shingi was at least 75% as effective as Regis, and the votes should reflect that!

[FlowerPower]

I sort of get where you are going hhm and Shingi's FIRST spell was certainly a welcome change from the carnage, but overall, you can't tell me his 1 wicket at the cost of 102 runs, (compared to Vitori's 1 at a cost of 94) is any better. For me even Hami, who was the best bowler on show, does not deserve a vote, let alone Jarvis, Shingi and Vitori. So for you to be touting Shingi like a shinning star is guilty of the same bias I talk of above (actually looking at his figures, even Vitori, who by your rating is useless, did better, workload (25 v 23 overs), number of maidens (3 v 2), economy 3.73 v 4.43, etc)

Lets get into the habit and understanding that its not about my favourite, but about who played well, and if we are to be honest Regis was the only player that deserved anything. Jarvis ...in the ODI and T20, Hami in the T20 and ODI, Taylor as well, but Test, come on guys get real!

[hhm]

Rather ironic for anyone to still seek to include Vitori in any meaningful bowling comparison based on that match!

Anyway FP, for a change I do not need the agreement of any of my fellow ZCF colleagues to be certain that Shingi was the standout bowler for Zimbabwe. In the assigned chief reporter for that series, as well as NZ's captain(who watched a century plus partnership from the stands, participated in 3 other half century partnerships, in the process compiling a century himself against ALL our bowlers before injury forced him off with 365/5 on the board), I have more qualified opinions who see the light!

At no point did I overstate Shingi beyond what was bare for all to see on the occasion, as well as written weeks prior to this poll! My player ratings give evidence of that. I simply projected the obvious, not bias as you choose to put it, neither was I the first to state he was a model and clearly a cut above the rest where our attack is concerned! Some have rightly given commendation to deserving individuals; others have opted to exercise their so called 'democratic' right and simply give it to whoever tickles the soul; some as yourself, on the other hand, have opted to withhold it. Indeed, your respective votes likewise reflect either one or both of those three categories!

You state 'humbly' that you have commented[voted] exhaustively with your fingers[hands], perhaps you may even have to do so using your feet!

[foreignfield]

Much ado about nothing, really. A poll is not a scientific endeavour, so there's no reason to sift through each single result/vote. At the end of the day (season) I'm pretty sure we'll get a pretty reasonable table. Some votes are probably more in defiance of the usual big-mouths on this forum than anything else.

If you're not happy with the vote, make some friends or assume multiple personalities

[aydee]

Much ado about nothing, really. A poll is not a scientific endeavour, so there's no reason to sift through each single result/vote. At the end of the day (season) I'm pretty sure we'll get a pretty reasonable table. Some votes are probably more in defiance of the usual big-mouths on this forum than anything else.

If you're not happy with the vote, make some friends or assume multiple personalities

Or.... Shrug your shoulders and get over yourself...

[FlowerPower]

Rather ironic for anyone to still seek to include Vitori in any meaningful bowling comparison based on that match!

You missed the irony altogether, Vitori's figures were actually better than both Jarvis and Shingi ( yes terrible but better, economy and average) hence my use of him, whom you ridicule, to show how poor all the bowlers were including Shingi, hence my sayin they don't deserve the votes. But the more I argue this the more I see there is no objectivity, others will vote for Jarvis just to spite hhm, others for Shingi to spite the Jarvis lovers, and so on, and very little about who actually did well. My apologies chaps....as you were....I'm out of here...

[hhm]

others will vote for Jarvis just to spite hhm, others for Shingi to spite the Jarvis lovers, and so on...

Trust me, it may appear to be the case, but underneath all of it, it's not meant to spite me or anyone, merely to maintain an agenda for something not someone! Apart from my genuine vote for Shingi, I doubt 3 others who voted for him can be said to be part of some spite trail. the boy did well, and deserves more! I think I've sufficiently proven that!

Anyway..........

[FlowerPower]

others will vote for Jarvis just to spite hhm, others for Shingi to spite the Jarvis lovers, and so on...

Trust me, it may appear to be the case, but underneath all of it, it's not meant to spite me or anyone, merely to maintain an agenda for something not someone! Apart from my genuine vote for Shingi, I doubt 3 others who voted for him can be said to be part of some spite trail. the boy did well, and deserves more! I think I've sufficiently proven that!

Anyway..........

I may have the motives wrong, but you certainly haven't proven anything (except your preference), and I on the contrary have shown that a substandard, in your view, Vitori (who in my view didn't deserve a vote) outperformed Jarvis in terms of average, and was a shade more expensive (but comparable) and totally outperformed Shingi in both average and economy. What I will give to Shingi is "that spell" after our disastrous opening (and I suspect that is where Taylor's praise is focused) unfortunately we are not, sorry let me rephrase, I thought we were voting for a whole match performance and not a spell (which neither won us a match nor got a glut of wickets...just one and eventually plenty runs gifted)....but as you say...anyways...if that is your opinion well, you are entitled to your view. I was merely pointing to the fact that none of the bowlers did well (or the batters for that matter) and if anything were worse than the Vitori who all accepted had a nightmare of a match (figures not opinion), from these figures Cremer by virtue of his 2 very expensive wickets is the best and Hami a part timer is the next best performer, neither got my vote, next in line is Vitori, then Shingi, and finally Jarvis. So I therefore found these votes strange and unobjective...and this is not simply being annal but plain logical.

PS just to underline my point how Mutizwa, Taylor, Waller, Taibu, Vitori got their one vote each is a shocker!.... I mean Taylor made ELEVEN(11) Runs from TWO (2) innings!! Taibu 6 (S I X)...Even if you didn't stay up to watch the nightmare, the figures are there....this is a farce!

And notice how Jarvis is doing poorly in the ODI/T20 where he SHOULD be doing well...it must be me...I'm reading too much into the title of these polls!