TEAM FOR SECOND TEST GENTS

[CrimsonAvenger]

Taibu was the last intelligent skipper we had but he did not have the resources to showcase his intelligence.

It takes nothing away from I said.

We can discuss who are the best cover and gulley fielders in the team but that doesn't mean BT and Cremer have employed them there. Being captain doesn't mean Taylor must be the one at slip if he is employing a solitary slip but he still placed himself there regardless. Do other captains do that no? Can untouchable Taylor be criticised for that on ZCF no?

So many cricketing discussion are never had here.

In no other forum would you find a situation where Williams is being suggested as a number 8 simply because he's been horrible with the bat and picked up some wickets. There is for ever 2nd chances and rehabilitation for everyone except those waiting for their chances or apparently dropped "legitimately".

1. Your point is about showing how Utseya and Elton used Hamilton better than BT and Cremer. Please share that stats. I'll take a look for sure this time. Please share it.
2. I have said clearly that I don't rate any skipper as intelligent since Taibu. So, instead of the rhetoric, throw some light on the stat you claimed to have shared. Why the slanderous talk as if I haven't criticized BT and Cremer as skippers? And don't generalize to "ZCF".
3. If you want to debate gully fielders or Williams at 8 or any other topic, debate them there or on a new topic. You addressed me here, and claimed a couple of things replying to what I had posted. Prove them or retract them.

I expect you to disappear from this conversation now that I have said this.

[Bulawayo Boy]

My team would be:

1. Hami (Our most experienced player. Should NOT be opening IMO (I'd have him at 3, even 4 - where he'd get more runs) but we have no one else *sigh*).
2. Mire (good start to tests and unlucky not to get 50. Bowls too. Top lad. I love this guy ).
3. Williams (keeps his place due to his bowling but time is running out).
4. Taylor (good 2nd innings - has known quality, and lots of experience).
5. Ervine (Bat Avg. 37 odd - hopefully he stays CALM and doesn't worry about strike rate - it's a Test Match eh?)
6. Raza (Avg. of 36 and ability to bowl).
7. PJ Moor (wkt) (a difficult one this - just seems to me he offers a tad more with the bat than Regis - Avg 33 vs 25).
8. Cremer (skipper and primary spinner - picks himself).
9. Jarvis (Bags of experience - absolutely essential he uses it! Good for the team and morale).
10. Panyangara (Avg. 26 odd - come on! How is he not in the team?)
11. Chatara (Avg. 29.25. Still a great bowler IMO. But I'd swap him out when Vitori is back.)

Others:
12. Waller - IMO he's finished. If Streak keeps picking him it's just because he's scared of Bundu . Better, perhaps, as a short format player only.
13. Mpofu - I'd think a reserve seamer at best. His figures are horrific.
14. Taibu (yes Taibu) - Well if he'd stop with his holier-than-though attitude we'd have a decent wicketkeeper batsman! He's experienced enough and good enough to be of REAL service to his country. This is, after all ZIMBABWE! He could easily play until his early forties. Selfish.
15. Vitori - We'll he's banned but he'll be back. Still boggles the mind how the ICC let Sri Lanka field a chucker for 15 years because of a "deformity" yet they ban our best leftie for a year!!!! A*******s!
16. Muzarabani - Love the idea of him getting a go! Great teams tend to be built around pace - ask the Windies and Aussies! A big man running at you is always intimidating!
17. Chari - we basically need to start working on him NOW so that he's properly ready in a year or two as we are desperate for openers. But I'm almost certain his development is being neglected.
18. Ngarava - as above!
19. Tiripano - I actually like him as a bowling all rounder but he'd need to bowl better to be of real use.

[jimbo]

Either blessing or ngarava as a wildcard for test match on Sunday would be great. Both are the future of our pace bowling stocks

[tawac]

The problem with Zimbabwe i think is we don't play enough cricket at any given stretch of time. Its takes so long to realize that some players will always fail. It took us so long to realise that Ervine is not a T20 player. Its taking us time to realise that for as long as the top 6 is not performing we wont win matches even if we have a top 8. The sooner we come to terms with this the better.

[pariah]

Taibu was the last intelligent skipper we had but he did not have the resources to showcase his intelligence.

It takes nothing away from I said.

We can discuss who are the best cover and gulley fielders in the team but that doesn't mean BT and Cremer have employed them there. Being captain doesn't mean Taylor must be the one at slip if he is employing a solitary slip but he still placed himself there regardless. Do other captains do that no? Can untouchable Taylor be criticised for that on ZCF no?

So many cricketing discussion are never had here.

In no other forum would you find a situation where Williams is being suggested as a number 8 simply because he's been horrible with the bat and picked up some wickets. There is for ever 2nd chances and rehabilitation for everyone except those waiting for their chances or apparently dropped "legitimately".

1. Your point is about showing how Utseya and Elton used Hamilton better than BT and Cremer. Please share that stats. I'll take a look for sure this time. Please share it.
2. I have said clearly that I don't rate any skipper as intelligent since Taibu. So, instead of the rhetoric, throw some light on the stat you claimed to have shared. Why the slanderous talk as if I haven't criticized BT and Cremer as skippers? And don't generalize to "ZCF".
3. If you want to debate gully fielders or Williams at 8 or any other topic, debate them there or on a new topic. You addressed me here, and claimed a couple of things replying to what I had posted. Prove them or retract them.

I expect you to disappear from this conversation now that I have said this.

You enjoy this game of yours, and I tolerate it quite often.

I indulged it before. In this instance my dear Crimson, kindly go and dig it up yourself. I will not prove anything twice. You're more than welcome to demand a retraction once you fail to find it for the same amount of time it's been there.

[pariah]

The problem with Zimbabwe i think is we don't play enough cricket at any given stretch of time. Its takes so long to realize that some players will always fail. It took us so long to realise that Ervine is not a T20 player. Its taking us time to realise that for as long as the top 6 is not performing we wont win matches even if we have a top 8. The sooner we come to terms with this the better.

In my last incarnation Williams played enough poor cricket to be dropped but that didn't happen.

Raza's happened mostly in my absence but he wasn't dropped either.

The point remains, Zimbabwe's lowest cricket points have largely happened while particular personnel have been a constant - Cremer, Williams, Raza, Waller and Moor.

It's no accident the the first bit of joy happened with the minor sprinkling of Mire and Musakanda as seasoning.

Same applied with the presence of Jongwe and Chisoro before that.

Yet making necessary changes is resisted furiously where certain individuals are concerned. The addition of BT & KJ just made the situation worse. Almost no one here even factors in their ejection in the near or distant future.

The day Zimbabwe starts dropping players who beg to be dropped is the day Zimbabwe wins.

Wasting money on a coach who can accommodate Malcolm and Mpofu, plus fails to pick a 2nd specialist spinner on spin friendly track in consecutive matches, while fans argue that he's a good coach makes zero sense. If he is good then Whatnot and Butcher must be gods! Heck why not bring back Bundu Waller?

If you really think about it, there were several gambles ahead of this Test:
1.Hami as opener again
2.Mire as a Test batsman, and opener
3.Mire as a change bowler
4.Jarvis after a long break from internationals and without game time
5.Malcom
6.Williams as a spinner
7.Williams as a batsman
8.Raza as a spinner
9.Cremer's ability to lead as captain and with the ball
10.Mpofu
11.The damage a non-bowling pair of BT & Craig at 3&4 would have if they failed to score decent runs

In my view all these gambles failed miserably except for Hami.

None of the bowlers got any of the dangerous WI batsmen before they did relative damage.

Hence the big defeat, and an even bigger more humiliating one awaits.

There is a reason why BD can be so hopeless in SA, but a threat at home. It's not because they have excellent bowlers, it's because they will never do the foolish things Zimbabwe arrogantly believes it can get away with at this level!

I still cannot believe the absence of a 2nd specialist spinner. On this deck Bishop will again out bowl Cremer, Raza and Williams.

Bishoo and Chase bowled 1st and 2nd change. Cremer bowled 2nd change in the 1st innings, plus 2nd innings too, even allowing Williams to bowl before him in the 2nd innings.

This isn't just foolishness. It's witchcraft!

[eugene]

Williams took 6 wickets in the test including 3-20 in the first innings, how can anyone of sound mind say that Williams failed as a bowler? The West Indies scored a total of 592 runs for the loss of 20 wickets in this match, that sort of bowling would win you many test matches.

[Jemisi]

Williams failed Hhm as a bowler because his plan is for Zim to lose. Williams is in the way of this plan. Williams has a desire to win. Hhm wants Utseya types that want to lose, are happy losing. He does not want capitalist western types who strive for victory. His utopia will not be achieved by guys like Streak and Taibu who actually have the temerity to try and improve results. He wants guys who can yell and scream and keep the plebs together in their losing cell.

The only thing is, Hhm hasn't been radical enough! He wants test centurions out of the team and bowlers who pick up 4 fers all the time. But to really ensure repeated failure and loss we need to get rid of everyone who makes a test 50. Get Chari back in, get Zhuwao. Get Maruma. Get Matsi back from retirement. Get Prosper opening the bowling seam up. Fill the rest with u17s who will do as they are told.

Then we will show the world. Zimbabwe will be free of this terrible curse of trying to win matches that the capitalist scum have blighted the world with. Zimbabwe will be a model. We will cease to lose because others will lose the will to defeat us by an innings and 500. It will sicken them, they will quickly grow tired of the slaughter. They will see the blood on their bats. They will cease to play us and then as all of our plans come together we will never lose again! No one will play Zimbabwe and No one will beat Zimbabwe!

We will be unbeatable. No one has a better plan for this than Hhm. Pariah status is often held by the brilliant mind who can look at a problem and come up with a complete paradigm shift. But eventually everyone comes round to their way of thinking! No one else here can claim a plan that will make us unbeatable like Hhm can. NO ONE!

FACT

[eugene]

Pariah would rather lose with his anointed players than win with players he doesn't approve of.

[CrimsonAvenger]

It takes nothing away from I said.

We can discuss who are the best cover and gulley fielders in the team but that doesn't mean BT and Cremer have employed them there. Being captain doesn't mean Taylor must be the one at slip if he is employing a solitary slip but he still placed himself there regardless. Do other captains do that no? Can untouchable Taylor be criticised for that on ZCF no?

So many cricketing discussion are never had here.

In no other forum would you find a situation where Williams is being suggested as a number 8 simply because he's been horrible with the bat and picked up some wickets. There is for ever 2nd chances and rehabilitation for everyone except those waiting for their chances or apparently dropped "legitimately".

1. Your point is about showing how Utseya and Elton used Hamilton better than BT and Cremer. Please share that stats. I'll take a look for sure this time. Please share it.
2. I have said clearly that I don't rate any skipper as intelligent since Taibu. So, instead of the rhetoric, throw some light on the stat you claimed to have shared. Why the slanderous talk as if I haven't criticized BT and Cremer as skippers? And don't generalize to "ZCF".
3. If you want to debate gully fielders or Williams at 8 or any other topic, debate them there or on a new topic. You addressed me here, and claimed a couple of things replying to what I had posted. Prove them or retract them.

I expect you to disappear from this conversation now that I have said this.

You enjoy this game of yours, and I tolerate it quite often.

I indulged it before. In this instance my dear Crimson, kindly go and dig it up yourself. I will not prove anything twice. You're more than welcome to demand a retraction once you fail to find it for the same amount of time it's been there.

I could not find it. Now what?