Sibanda's NZ tour in doubt?

[Boundary]

Writing carefully, since I'm the Ndebele component of this discussion, Ndebeles are a minority, they understand and accept that, but they want a system that's conducive and accepts their existence. So in cricketing terms, that's why the franchise system was greeted with glee by me and others. The locals get to run their own cricket, so even if the Tuskers end up having more English pros and Shonas than Ndebeles it doesn't matter because the locals are in charge: it's not an edict from Harare. So when it comes to the national set up, it is important that the best players are selected. It is up to the franchises to produce local talent and national selection should be oblivious to tribe or colour. These problems can't be totally eradicated but, in cricket terms only, I think Zim is way more inclusive than all of the major cricket nations.

[hhm]

Can you tell the difference between them as you walk down the street? Such as comparing a Dutchman to a Greek?

I can usually tell but I’m not sure how to describe it!

You know Bayhaus, considering that Shonas (like Xhosas) have tribes within their nation – then clans, unlike Zulus&Ndebeles who just have clans, it’s worth mentioning that, maybe it's the reason why Hami’s vice captaincy was reduced to just a ceremonial one! Remember, within the Shona, the Zezurus & Karangas hate each other (Karangas actually trust Ndebeles more then Zezurus i.e.e other Shonas), maybe that’s why Hami didn’t get the nod. Peter&Ozias may be one, him the other! Then again, he was out of the team and not included for the WC.

I think it’s safe to say that one’s for the historians betterdays. Less explained the better! Anyway, the Tuskers are doing the job, if it ws up to me, we'd have the bulk of our guys in the Test XI (Meth, Mpofu, Duffin, Ewing, Craig, Querl & Ncube, with room for Vusi, Taibu, Taylor & Price)!

[bayhaus]

Can you tell the difference between them as you
walk down the street? Such as comparing a
Dutchman to a Greek?

I cant tell between shonas/ndebeles just by looking, but between zimbos and saffers, walking in central Jozi I can pick out Zimbos easily even when they dress like saffers...

[Boundary]

Can you tell the difference between them as you
walk down the street? Such as comparing a
Dutchman to a Greek?

I cant tell between shonas/ndebeles just by looking, but between zimbos and saffers, walking in central Jozi I can pick out Zimbos easily even when they dress like saffers...

How?

[bayhaus]

Zimbos are generally darker and have distinct facial features which I cant exactly pin point, Zimbos would also be generally leaner, this might all sound very general but we even play it as a game with my wife and we are correct up to 90% of the times.

So now we can assume that Vusi has signed a contract since he is playing for Midwest (Can he play without one?) so that settles that issue, and everybody is happy! (?) All is well that ends well next up is to trim that squad if it hasnt happened already...

[Conant]

Can you tell the difference between them as you walk down the street? Such as comparing a Dutchman to a Greek?

I can usually tell but I’m not sure how to describe it!:D

There's no way of really describing it without sounding disparaging, prejudiced, or offending another tribe, or in the preoccess pre-epmting genocide a la Rwanda.

The Tsutsi tribe in Rwanda were considered to be generally taller, leaner, fairer (and by implication better looking) that their peers the Hutus by their Belgian colonisers and thus were elevated over the rest of the population despite being a vast minority. They were given better jobs, generally better traeatment such that for a Hutu, to serve in a Tsutsi household was a pinnacle!!This was to be a percusor of the mass slaughter that followed in the country almost a century later.

Anyway it has been generally accepted now, or at least acknowledged or spoken in hushed tones that the normal Ndebele girl or general Ndebele populace is more good looking than the Shona. For years I denied this "plain' generalisation unti I came to South Africa and really noticed that indeed one black tribe, despite its proximity to each other, could be vastly different in looks to the other.

Nathaniel Manheru, aka George Charamba, a Shona or Manyika even acknowleges this in one of his popular musings in the The Other Side, where he remarked that "in his university days at UZ, the girls from the Western side of the country (by extension Matebeleland) were always mostly fairer and more beautiful and 'nubile' (I don't mean to imply by any means fair is beautiful: there are many who will argue this is a colonisation mindset and ebony is better!!) than the locals and every man on campus wished to have one of those."

Wilbur Smith, the popular novelist (whom I stopped reading somewhere in 12th grade - for reasons below) I found in his novels, many which are merely a repitition of another, is very disparaging of Shona locals, who he describes as having thick lips (most blacks can be argued to be thick lipped. No, whites are thin lipped. Get it?) and the Matabele more royal in looks. His descriptions, were always fairly distasteful and offensive. One feels he carries a sore grudge. Rather read John Gordon Davis, a fairer and more rounded author!!

However, while many people of Ndebele extraction are quick to point out how beautiful their women are, one is mildly amused to discover the same will not acknowledge how so much better the morals of the Shona girl is, the result of a strict culture and upbringing, instead hiding behind the finger of, "it depends." If you contest this, since were are mostly male on this forum try getting laid by a Shona girl!! You will sweat it out for weeks if not months, and even then is no guarantee for success. As for me, since I arrived in this beautiful country and being a happy bachelor, I have stuck to the local girls (South Africans) with considerable and far quicker succes!!

Similarly, as bayhaus pointed out, in the midst of Joburg you can normally tell a Zimbo from a South African though not by choice of clothing but by mere looks alone. I have found much to my chagrin how naturally more beatiful South Africans as compared to us. Strangely the South Africans themseleves seem to be unaware of this. Beauty is EVERYWHERE, so much its taken for granted. But to balance everything up, being a proud Zimbo, I never miss an opportunity to remind everyone just how much smarter we are, although arguably this is not hereditary.

I went on a adate with a South African girl yesterday who saw a couple of twins on the day's newspaper and exclaimed: "Hey, I didn't know Somalia had twins!!"
Thinking that perhaps Somalia was an exotically named name like maybe Zahara, I asked if Somalia was a person. "No," she replied. "Don't you know Somalia? The country?" Afterwards sher pointerd out she was SURE Nigeria had no twins either.

Anyway, having found different kinds of peole generally fascinating, I can safely point out the difference between Zulu, Xhosa Sotho and Venda merely by looking at them. Of course with the Xhosa you can further tell by their faint arrongance, as hhm will attest!! ); the Zulu by the uppityness despite being the lauging stock of everybody else in the country ,), I'm yet to learn any mannerisms of Sothos by their women have a very generous posterior... okay people, enough!!

Ps: If anybody finds this offensive let me know

[foreignfield]

Wilbur Smith, the popular novelist (whom I stopped reading somewhere in 12th grade) I found in his novels, many which are merely a repitition of another, is very disparaging of Shona locals, who he describes as having thick lips (most blacks can be argued to be thick lipped. (No, whites are thin lipped. Get it?) and the Matabele more royal in looks. His descriptions, were always fairly distasteful and offensive. One feels he carries a sore grudge. Rather read John Gordon Davis!!

I once had to proof-read a translation of one of his novels into German, it was a shambles of a story about a journey into the mythical heart of Africa in some distant past .. and the most racist and sexist filth I ever had to endure!

But, anyway, keep the discussion going guys, it's most interesting for a non-Zimbo like me.

[Jemisi]

I kind of know that everyone is not trying to be offensive here, and I think that it is worthwhile for people to have a grasp of Shona, Ndebele, Rhodesian and Zim historical issues. Having said that, I kind of feel like it might be time to move on from this discussion before someone crosses a line that starts a conflict. Sorry if that sounds too preachy.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Not me.

I don't cross racial lines!

I'm just a man trying to join a tribe...

[ahashmi248]

Please also let me know bout it......................