[Series Thread] World Cup 2019

[Kriterion_BD]

Bangladesh have had a good WC. The old guard of commentators won't ever acknowledge how good they are, but I think regular people are just beginning to realise that BD are a proper mid-tier team now - a rung above no-hopers like SL and WI.

Shakib is world class.

I hope this is not a high water mark for BD and they keep improving. I have a little fear that perhaps 2019 was their moment to pull off a Sri Lanka 1996 type miracle and they've missed their chance. Someone like Shakib is irreplaceable and will he still be around at the next WC? Mushfiqur is tough to replace too.

Shakib, Mushy, Tamim, and probably even Mahmudullah will all be around for the 2023 WC. I'm expecting Mushy to kick on till 2027 in fact. But the question is by 2023 Shakib and Mushy will be 36, Tamim 35, and Mahmudullah 37. Will they still be in their prime? Its doubtful, though possible. Bangladesh will need to unearth young talent, or hope that Soumya, Liton, Mossaddek, and Miraz go on to the become the next Shakib/Tamim/Mushfiq.

[jaybro]

We aren't not bowling India out for 200 on that pitch even if Tamim takes that catch. Thats delusional. Weren't you just talking shit about the bowling attack (Fizz took more wickets than Bumrah btw, and both guys did a job of mopping up the tail at the death)? I don't get it.

Hahah you were saying Bangladesh were the 'Bench Mark of ODI Bowling' I was merely saying they weren't, IMO they a decent unit who bowl well in conditions that suit them but as this tournament has shown they've struggled and in the end they've missed the finals.

You can spin it anyway you like but dropping catches isn't a good thing, only you could actually believe it doesn't really matter

We weren't favorites to win the World Cup. But India and Australia were. NZ are always highly rated as dark horses for semifinals, though not beyond.

I'll take 5th place. Although we should not lose to this Pakistan team (no better than BD in ODIs), 6th place would have been my pre-world cup prediction. Brendon McCullum - a respected cricket mind - predicted Bangladesh finishing equal last with Afghanistan (go figure). So I'll take 5th or 6th.

It has been a good tournament for the Tigers no doubt, they've finished ahead of teams like South Africa and the Windies who I thought would have done better in the conditions, as BRMT said hopefully this isn't the high point for them and they go onto bigger and better things unlike Zimbabwe in the 99 WC.

I still feel they've missed a golden opportunity to go further though in this tournament, considering guys like Shakib, Mushy, Tamin etc are in the 'sweet spots' of their career and the fact teams like South Africa and Sri Lanka have bottomed out, this may have been their chance to make the semis, if not for a few costly drop catches.

[Kriterion_BD]

We aren't not bowling India out for 200 on that pitch even if Tamim takes that catch. Thats delusional. Weren't you just talking shit about the bowling attack (Fizz took more wickets than Bumrah btw, and both guys did a job of mopping up the tail at the death)? I don't get it.

Hahah you were saying Bangladesh were the 'Bench Mark of ODI Bowling' I was merely saying they weren't, IMO they a decent unit who bowl well in conditions that suit them but as this tournament has shown they've struggled and in the end they've missed the finals.

You can spin it anyway you like but dropping catches isn't a good thing, only you could actually believe it doesn't really matter

We weren't favorites to win the World Cup. But India and Australia were. NZ are always highly rated as dark horses for semifinals, though not beyond.

I'll take 5th place. Although we should not lose to this Pakistan team (no better than BD in ODIs), 6th place would have been my pre-world cup prediction. Brendon McCullum - a respected cricket mind - predicted Bangladesh finishing equal last with Afghanistan (go figure). So I'll take 5th or 6th.

It has been a good tournament for the Tigers no doubt, they've finished ahead of teams like South Africa and the Windies who I thought would have done better in the conditions, as BRMT said hopefully this isn't the high point for them and they go onto bigger and better things unlike Zimbabwe in the 99 WC.

I still feel they've missed a golden opportunity to go further though in this tournament, considering guys like Shakib, Mushy, Tamin etc are in the 'sweet spots' of their career and the fact teams like South Africa and Sri Lanka have bottomed out, this may have been their chance to make the semis, if not for a few costly drop catches.

The benchmark comment was in relation to the Babar vs Mushfiq debate. I'm willing to admit, I was wrong to rate Babar Azam below Mushfiq. The World Cup gives strong evidence that they are virtually in the same class with almost identical performances down to the T.

I don't think the catch being dropped was a good thing. It was a pretty straightforward chance. Tamim's world cup overall was poor, without being terrible. But here's the analysis, on a pitch where Bangladesh scored 286 chasing against arguably the best bowling attack in ODI cricket, holding India to 314 is about as good a job as you can expect. So even if Tamim gets Rohit for 9, you have to remember its a flat pitch where 600 runs were scored. Kohli will cash in as he is quite possibly the greatest ODI batsman ever. Kohli was unable to cash in because he attempted to accelerate since he came in to bat so much later than he usually does. Again it was decent bowling from the Fizz, and the pitch suited his style, but it wasn't such an unplayable ball that a batsman of Kohli's calibre should necessarily get out.

Same could be said of Mushfiq's fumble vs NZ. On the surface it looks like BD would surely have won because NZ would have been 60-3 in a game they only won by 2 wickets. But you also have to remember that Bangladesh got a bonus wicket of de Grandhomme. How many times have you seen a batsmen get out caught behind by ramping the ball straight to the WK? I may have seen that once.

Bottom line is we were just short against India, and I'll take that because India are a great team, arguably best ODI team in the world. We came up just short against NZ, and NZ are a decent side.

I agree with you, this was BD's golden opportunity to at least make a WC semifinal given that Mushfiq-Shakib-Tamim core was in their prime. Before the tournament I said we had a chance to make the semis, but we'd need other results to go our way. I'm sure no one on ZCF would have thought BD had any chance to make the semis. But should we beat PAK tomorrow, as expected, and had that SL game not been rained out, we'd have been on 11 points and possibly in ahead of NZ who will make the semis on 11 points and a low NRR of 0.175. So that is certainly disappointing, but at the same time, I don't think its the end of the world. Sri Lanka won a world cup inside our lifetimes, and they are now merely slightly better than hopeless.

But I'm optimistic. This world cup was still one mark of progress for us just like 2015 one was. The wins against SA, WI, close calls vs solid sides NZ and IND, have proven that Bangladesh can play ODI cricket in these conditions against any opponent. Its not just slow dustbowls in Asia where we have a chance. We will build on that. Who knows, might even help our overseas Test performances.

Mushfiq and Tamim will still be 35 at the next world cup in Asia. Given their work ethic I expect them to still be at peak form. Shakib may not be in peak form, but as long as he's still a solid all rounder, we'll be fine. I think Mosaddek has proven that he can be an even better version of Mahmudullah, and Liton has shown that he has something to work with. Soumya will probably never been a consistent gamebreaker, but as long as there is a solid opener at the other end, its OK if he only bats 10 overs. Those 10 overs can set the tone for the rest of the innings.

The bowling is the weak point and most worriesome.

Rubel was always decent (great by Bangladesh standards), and even won us a game vs England at the last world cup. He is nowhere near that, and at age 30, he is likely finished (he's been playing since age 19).

Taskin was a great prospect, tall, consistently bowled around 90 mph and occaisionally over. But he's fallen off the wagon faster than Rubel.

Fizz is the unquestioned leader of the attack. 15 wickets at 27 so far in the world cup with one of the best strike rates is a decent effort. Had his best performance against the best team (5-fer vs India). Still, I'd have liked to see him with a lower econ, but I guess he went after wickets as evidenced by his strike rate (superior to Archer, Boult, Bumrah, Cummins, etc). Overall I give him a B+ for the world cup. Indian pitches in 2023 should suit him better.

Spinners were decent. Mehidy Miraz and Mosaddek were amongst the hardest spinners to score off this WC, but they lacked ability to get wickets. Bangladesh really need to invest in wrist spinners.

Fielding was mediocre from what I saw. Nothing to write home about. A bit disappointing since thats the one thing you can always strive to be above average in no matter how poor your cricketing skills are.

2023, as long as someone can beat India (huge if), we should be able to beat anyone else in Asian conditions.

[sam_ahm]

A very good campaign for Bangladesh. Let's see if they can beat Pakistan tomorrow to finish on a high.

New Zealand have been a little lucky tbh. If that Brathwaite shot had gone for 6, may be that India game hadn't been washed out.. Kiwis were on their way out. The haven't beaten any of the semi finalists neither beaten Pakistan, barely got home against BAN, WI and RSA... and still find themselves in semi finals.

[Googly]

What Calendar do the Afghans use when they assign ages to their players? Sumtingwong there. This 18 year old ain’t 18. He may well be a malnourished 22 year old but he ain’t 18.

[Kriterion_BD]

Dissappointing finish from BD.

Although I suppose most BD fans got over-excited because we entered the tournament ranked 7th and finished exactly there (would have almost certainly been 6th had both BD and PAK got chances to beat SL). We finished with 3 wins, and didn't get a chance to pick up a 4th against Sri Lanka. Which matched my prediction of 4-5 wins for BD. Still, the meek surrender against Pakistan was difficult to stomach after the display of fight against India and Australia.

Statistically, it was a reasonable tournament for many of our players:

Shakib (606 runs @ 86.57, 96.03 strike rate...11 wickets @ 36.27, 5.39 econ)
Mushfiq (367 runs @ 52.42, 92.67 strike rate)
Mahmudullah (292 runs @ 43.80, 89.75 strike rate)
Mehidy Miraz (6 wickets @ 56.83, 5.08 econ)
Mustafizur (20 wickets @ 24.20, 6.70 econ)

Shakib might well finish as the leading run scorer in the group stage and Miraz was one of the most economical spinners in the tournament. The Fizz struggled to contain, but so far only Starc has taken more wickets and his strike rate was better than Bumrah, Amir, and Cummins.

Ultimately, it was poor fielding and the fact that the bowling didn't consistently bowl as a unit. Although Shakib, Mustafiz, and Miraz all bowled decently overall, they rarely bowled well together.

Focus should now shift to improving on this performance in 2023 where the Indian conditions should be at least slightly more familiar.

[sam_ahm]

Pakistan have been unlucky. They should have made it to the semis. They caught fire but it turned out to be a little too late.

Had that Brathwaite shot travelled 1m longer.. Or Had RSA reviewed KW's dismissal, or if Pak's game against SLN were not to be a wash out, or if Kiwis game against India were not to be washed out... Well.. Who knows.

Bottom line is that after eliminating teams like Zimbabwe, Ireland, Netherlands, Scotland, killing their hopes in the name of fair and competitive format, and then still not having the best 4 teams qualify for semis, what exactly is the use of this format?

[Kriterion_BD]

Pakistan have been unlucky. They should have made it to the semis. They caught fire but it turned out to be a little too late.

Had that Brathwaite shot travelled 1m longer.. Or Had RSA reviewed KW's dismissal, or if Pak's game against SLN were not to be a wash out, or if Kiwis game against India were not to be washed out... Well.. Who knows.

Bottom line is that after eliminating teams like Zimbabwe, Ireland, Netherlands, Scotland, killing their hopes in the name of fair and competitive format, and then still not having the best 4 teams qualify for semis, what exactly is the use of this format?

Pakistan still had their chance. They could have progressed if they bowled Bangladesh out for 7. They did not, thus the 4 best sides are in the tournament. Pakistan may have beaten England and NZ, but they also lost to WI and would have lost to AFG if the Afghan captain wasn't braindead.

In fact, net run rate is the the best decider of who gets through and who doesn't. Head to head is fair, but it only takes into account one game. NRR takes into account all games, and thus it is even more fair than head to head. PAK could have batted out their overs vs WI. They could have not waited till the last over to beat NZ. They could have scored more runs vs India like Bangladesh did. Pakistan's net run rate was very poor throughout the tournament.

[eugene]

This format is the most fair. New Zealand got lucky with a eashout against India but for all we know they might have won that game. Pakistan apdi the price for a couple of big defeats. Credit to England for winning their must-win games, they were probably the most under-pressure team in the round robin and they came through when they needed to. South Africa as usual wilted under World Cup pressure and only hit form once the tournament was gone.

[jaybro]

If I get a spare hour or so I’ll do my usual player reviews but this time for Bangladesh, this should give me & Kriterion enough to argue you for the next few months until Zimbabwe play another match lol