The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

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Terryalderman
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The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by Terryalderman » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:53 am

Focussed on Zimbabwe in the 99 World Cup.

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jaybro
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Re: The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by jaybro » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:43 am

Yeup I’ve listened to it, very interesting and great to get an insight on possibly the greatest ever Zimbabwean side?
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

sloandog
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Re: The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by sloandog » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:57 am

Where’s the link
When in doubt, listen to Oasis chaps....

rusty17
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Re: The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by rusty17 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:19 am


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eugene
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Re: The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by eugene » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:03 pm

It was actually fun to follow Zimbabwean cricket back then. Amazing how far we have fallen in 20 years. We didn't realise it at the time but Zimbabwe's decline into a basket case had already begun with the "land-reform" debacle about to hit the fan.
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

Googly
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Re: The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by Googly » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:12 pm

Not a bad interview, but it’s nothing we haven’t heard before. You’d think they would crack into some more pointed questions in the hopes of something different.
Sounded like a batsman being interviewed after a decent innings :lol: all vanilla and stuff. Actually sounded like someone keeping his options open.

jward
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Re: The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by jward » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:03 pm

I was covering Zimbabwe in the 1999 World Cup for Cricinfo, and I must say that they actually underperformed badly. There were a couple of brilliant victories, but also much very mediocre play that drove coach Dave Houghton to distraction. I think the reason is that most of the players seriously lacked self-confidence and didn't believe they were good enough to beat the top teams in the world.

The victory over South Africa came when Zimbabwe thought they had been knocked out of the tournament following rather feeble defeats by Sri Lanka and England, and the pressure was off them. I went into the dressing room at Chelmsford after the match to celebrate the victory, only to find there was no celebration, just a stunned silence! Neil Johnson was obviously quite happy, but otherwise the atmosphere would have suited a morgue! Nobody walking in by accident would have thought this was a victorious team.

I thought I would encourage them by telling them that England looked like losing their match with India and Zimbabwe could get through to the Super Sixes, and met with no enthusiasm at all. Mentally they were on the plane home already, and I feared then that they would flop in the Super Sixes, which happened. I cannot help wondering how much impact they would have made if only they had the self-belief to play their best in every match.

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zimbos_05
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Re: The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by zimbos_05 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:33 pm

Self-belief has been a problem with Zim for a very long time. It's almost as if as we got better, we began to doubt ourselves more.

Now the guys don't really care. As long as they get their pay check, they're not bothered.

Googly
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Re: The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by Googly » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:14 am

I’m not sure that’s true. Everyone wants to win, they just don’t believe they can. When they eventually play a big side it’s going to feel particularly daunting. They see these guys on TV fairly regularly and read about them and here they are struggling against AssocIates. I don’t know how you gear yourself for that mentally. I’m not sure you can because we really are way off the mark now.
The expectation is that we should be competing and that’s particularly daunting. Associates can play a big side with clear heads.

When we first made our way in international cricket I know the players started out by being determined to just compete, to make the opposition have to actually fight for a win and they also knew that they had a couple of guys of real ability and international caliber. Also don’t forget the overall standard of international cricket has improved. Yes there were some great players back then in other teams but everything improves and that was nearly 20 years ago now.

Take a guy like Ed Byrom who’s been in a really good system for a number of years now, he actually believes he’s ready for the next level and he knows he’s got the skills to make the step up. Which of our guys could have peeled off 8 or 9 hundreds in County Two’s? Where are you going to find a guy that’s been in a fantastic system for 5 years, has played over 400 games and is genuinely good and believes in himself?
You also need guys who are not suffering from shell shock. I know none of our top batters would have managed that this season. We’re not ticking any boxes.

The guy we should never have lost is Dave Houghton. He was one of the real men that believed in himself and had that “fuck this, they’re only human, we can do this!”
Of course you need the raw material to work with, young guys with real grunt.

The reality is that when Zim cricket was taken over by guys that didn’t know what they were doing they thought this was a lot easier than it is. They actually bought into their own story of guys being denied opportunities. It was only partially true, a couple of guys were, but they did not realize that once you lost that nucleus of hard men there was no one to replace them. Talented guys like Hamilton, Vusi and Taibu I believe needed someone like Flower to make them really believe. Once you get to a certain level cricket is only played between the ears. Ideally you need to be in a team where you know there are a couple of hard men that are up for the fight, but when you suddenly look up and they’re gone and you realize you’re supposed to be the hard man before your time it ain’t gonna happen. :lol:
Everyone is way too quick to talk about once a generation cricketers, our two were Andy Flower and Houghton. They were the guys that brought the real fight to the table. The really crazy thing is that they’re still in the game and our muppets don’t want them. Well they probably do, but on their terms. These guys are not trained mice, they’re lions and they won’t be dictated to by our motley crew. What an absolute indictment on these people that we have world class, world renowned and world respected ex players and coaches out there that they don’t want!! They STILL believe they can fix this themselves. :lol: :lol:
It’s the same old thing, if this was put to the vote- who wants Houghton and Flower running our cricket? The results would speak for themselves. 6 guys would say yes and the other 200 would either say an emphatic no or a cautious maybe as long as they promise to tow the line and not bin us or shout at us if we are actually useless. Therein lies the answer as to why we’re going nowhere fast.
Last edited by Googly on Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Googly
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Re: The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast

Post by Googly » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:45 am

Instead we’ve got a board member using a nom de plume shouting about pink Rhodesians and “we’ll never be a colony again (except maybe a Chinese one)” and waging a war all over again in his head probably because he never fought in the first one. How is this allowed to go uncensured? Herein lies another huge problem we have.

Don’t forget that this gent doesn’t just reserve his special brand of vitriol for us pink guys.
https://www.dailynews.co.zw/articles/20 ... k-outburst

Lest we forget these chaps have jostled for position against each other for many many years. One minute behind the scenes they’re at each other’s throats with some unbelievably low level stuff and the next they’re feeding quietly side by side.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesta ... ended/amp/

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