How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Participate in discussion with your fellow Zimbabwe cricket fans!
User avatar
zimbos_05
Posts: 1374
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:00 am

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by zimbos_05 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:39 am

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:42 am
zimbos_05 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:21 pm

I'm all for equal rights and all that, but Zimdoggy has a point tbf
Then you are not for equal rights or all that. That would be akin to a German dude from the 1930s saying "I'm all for Jews, but that Hitler guy has a point".

Equal rights means everyone, including and especially minorities, get the same privileges as the majority. If someone argues that they "have no problem with gays/blacks/hispanics/Muslims but you have to agree that gays/blacks/hispanics/Muslims are the source of all of societies problems, then they don't believe in equal rights.

Would you tell your wife or girlfriend "I believe women are equal to men, but women working are the reason why so many kids are doing drugs?"
I can be for something and also understand the opposing viewpoint.

Zimdoggy was trying to say that everything has a reaction to it, there is always an effect of an action. Does not mean I agree with him.

The problem is that a lot of people feel that if you believe in something or have a viewpoint, you have to automatically disagree with or not understand what the other person is saying.

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 4117
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by Kriterion_BD » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:07 pm

zimbos_05 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:39 am

I can be for something and also understand the opposing viewpoint.
Certainly agree here. Explanation is not always = justification.

But you have to consider phrase-ology to avoid confusion or ambiguity. Using the words "so and so has a point" suggests justification and validation of a set of beliefs. A more precise phrase would be "so and so says" or "so and so believes".

For example, saying "Hitler had a point when he talked about how the Jews had too much power in Germany/Europe" is suggesting a validation of that anti-semitic belief. A matter-of-fact way to state that is, "Hitler had a grievance that Jews wielded too much power". That neither distorts facts, nor does it validate or invalidate Nazi views.
(my cricket podcast) https://aewahid.podbean.com

ZIMDOGGY
Posts: 3929
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:40 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:17 pm

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:07 pm
zimbos_05 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:39 am

I can be for something and also understand the opposing viewpoint.
Certainly agree here. Explanation is not always = justification.

But you have to consider phrase-ology to avoid confusion or ambiguity. Using the words "so and so has a point" suggests justification and validation of a set of beliefs. A more precise phrase would be "so and so says" or "so and so believes".

For example, saying "Hitler had a point when he talked about how the Jews had too much power in Germany/Europe" is suggesting a validation of that anti-semitic belief. A matter-of-fact way to state that is, "Hitler had a grievance that Jews wielded too much power". That neither distorts facts, nor does it validate or invalidate Nazi views.
But There was a problem with Jews in Germany that had to be addressed somehow. Not saying (hopefully obviously) that a genocide was the answer, but there was a clear Jewish led program that was choking the economy of Germany, and it was a considered, pointed strategy to drain the nations finances. Something had to be done. I just wish it was more diplomatic.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

ZIMDOGGY
Posts: 3929
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:40 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:34 am
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:12 pm
My genuine question to you Kriterion,
Would you be this accepting if this stuff was happening to Bangladesh only instead?
Genuine Q.
Nice deflection, but to humor you, I'll bite.

Bangladesh has many far greater concerns than one single instance of potential child abuse. I will even go ahead and name some of them for you:

1) Climate change. As the sea levels rise gradually, much of Bangladesh will be underwater for much of the year, rendering life impossible. Other parts of Bangladesh will find human habitation greatly diminished. Bangladesh is is 1/6th the size of Texas, but has 6 times the population. Doing the math, this means big trouble.

2) Water. Bangladesh has an immensely strained potable water supply. Much of the water has dangerous levels of arsenic in it.

3) Liveablity. Dhaka, the capital city routinely ranks as amongst the worst or least livable cities one the planet. Even worse than Harare, to my knowledge.

4) Crime and violent crime.

5) Rohingya refugees. Bangladesh now houses more than 1 million Burmese Muslim refugees who fled ethnic cleansing and genocide at the hands of majority Buddhist population. For a poor country like Bangladesh this is an immense burden and a strain. This will pose all sorts of problems in the coming years. Additional refugees may flee in the coming years from Burma or India.

Notice how LGBTQ or transgender does not feature anywhere on this list. If two gay guys want to marry, how does that affect any straight person in Bangladesh? Whether they marry or not, they are still going to be fucking, so whats the big deal?

Just for the record, I'm not pro-gay marriage. I'm just not anti...its no business of mine. The only conceivable way it might be my business is if it was a public health issue in any way.
I know Bangladesh is a dump with severe issues that you have outlined, and I’m not deflecting.

My point was to your point that I was over dramatising an issue.
However the gay issue is something that is happening all over the west + Europe. It’s leading to distortion of the pillars of our society that’s going to have consequences. Some mild, some not so much.

My Bangladesh question was genuine and it was on a deeper level to the point above^
I wanted your honest thoughts of how you would feel if your spiritual, Islamic homeland that you hold dear to your identity went down a path that was taken over culturally by LGBT alphabet stuff.

It is my belief that you are able to disassociate yourself from it in the comfort that this hasn’t taken over the Islamic world and as a member you can lol/brush it off with a sense of distance. This is my instinct and I’m sorry if I’m wrong. It is not a criticism. I get it. I’m envious.
But understand please that people on the other side of the fence don’t have that place of serenity to withdraw too in the same way, it’s Diminishing.

I know that Bdesh has bigger problems but the west has issues too, and how would you feel about having Bangladesh media draw focus on gay issues and ignore the sea level issue and such? That’s what a lot of people in the west are sick of. We have issues and the attention is all gay shit.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 4117
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by Kriterion_BD » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:04 am

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm


I know Bangladesh is a dump with severe issues that you have outlined, and I’m not deflecting.

My point was to your point that I was over dramatising an issue.
However the gay issue is something that is happening all over the west + Europe. It’s leading to distortion of the pillars of our society that’s going to have consequences. Some mild, some not so much.

My Bangladesh question was genuine and it was on a deeper level to the point above^
I wanted your honest thoughts of how you would feel if your spiritual, Islamic homeland that you hold dear to your identity went down a path that was taken over culturally by LGBT alphabet stuff.

It is my belief that you are able to disassociate yourself from it in the comfort that this hasn’t taken over the Islamic world and as a member you can lol/brush it off with a sense of distance. This is my instinct and I’m sorry if I’m wrong. It is not a criticism. I get it. I’m envious.
But understand please that people on the other side of the fence don’t have that place of serenity to withdraw too in the same way, it’s Diminishing.

I know that Bdesh has bigger problems but the west has issues too, and how would you feel about having Bangladesh media draw focus on gay issues and ignore the sea level issue and such? That’s what a lot of people in the west are sick of. We have issues and the attention is all gay shit.
Bangladesh is not a spiritual or Islamic homeland (for that matter, neither is Pakistan, nor even Saudi Arabia). The Quran says that entire universe belongs to God. Borders are just fake lines drawn on a map. There are gay people in Bangladesh and the deserve the same dignity and rights that anyone else does. Why should the secular government of Bangladesh discriminate against gays? Should it discriminate against Christians also? Most mosques, mandirs, and churches in Bangladesh will not recognize same-sex marriages. It is not the job of a secular government to impose religious law to oppress a minority group. Period.

European nations are secular. They are not Christian theocracies, and gays (and other minorities) are entitled to whatever rights are granted by the constitution to all other citizens/residents.

Alcohol is 1000x times more harmful to European society than members of the LGBTQ community. Gays will not give Europeans liver cancer. Gays will not cause drunk driving accidents that kill hundreds of Europeans each year. Gays will not cause alcoholic cardiomyopathy.
(my cricket podcast) https://aewahid.podbean.com

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7582
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by jaybro » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:27 am

This has gotten so far off subject

Can't this be moved to a sub-forum
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 4117
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by Kriterion_BD » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:34 am

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm
It’s leading to distortion of the pillars of our society that’s going to have consequences. Some mild, some not so much.
This is patently false. There is no evidence of this, nor does it even make logical sense. One person's sexual orientation does not have any effect on other people.
(my cricket podcast) https://aewahid.podbean.com

sloandog
Posts: 7202
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:28 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos
Location: Manchester UK

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by sloandog » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:32 am

What the fuck am I reading
When in doubt, listen to Oasis chaps....

ZIMDOGGY
Posts: 3929
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:40 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:11 am

sloandog wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:32 am
What the fuck am I reading
A thread with gays, Jews, war, child trannies, African politics, Islamic ideology and Rugby.

I mean what else could you expect from a Zimbabwean cricket forum ?
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

User avatar
eugene
Posts: 6688
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:31 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: How has your association with ZCF helped you?

Post by eugene » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:08 pm

Must be time for someone to name their preferred Starting XI.
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest