Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

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ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

jaybro wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:44 am
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:39 am
Btw I’m referring to pace only. Line, length and movement is obviously coachable.

But find a 140 plus guy and that is half the work done.
Yeah I would have thought so

But Zimbabwe rarely produces these types
On one hand I think it’s a symptom of very very low playing numbers. Fats bowling being a natural aptitude relies on weight of numbers. Like asking 100 random girls for sex. You’ll get one that’s so drunk she will say yes. Same concept. Zim stays so competitive on the strength of their batting. If someone reading this comment hasn’t figured out yet how reliant we are on our middle order, you’ll be in for a rude shock in 5 years.


But on the other hand, other countries with comparable numbers. Like the UAE, Netherlands (although I’d argue these countries have more players) still pop out bowlers who can bowl 140 plus.

Even Canada had a Ugandan in 2011 who was popping 140 in the WC.
Canada!
Uganda!

On the balance of things, I believe we should have at least two consistent 140 plus guys, and at least 1x more in the Jarvis/Chatara category of talent.
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TapsC
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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by TapsC »

The people with the body structure to throw 140 rockets don't have cricket as their number 1 sport. I think that's where the problem is. They are either playing football or basketball or rugby or waterpolo(private schools) or running track. Cricket only becomes interesting to most of these kids after school when they realize those other sports don't have money in Zimbabwe.

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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

TapsC wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:39 pm
The people with the body structure to throw 140 rockets don't have cricket as their number 1 sport. I think that's where the problem is. They are either playing football or basketball or rugby or waterpolo(private schools) or running track. Cricket only becomes interesting to most of these kids after school when they realize those other sports don't have money in Zimbabwe.
I’m not sure if that’s true.

Someone like Moody, Cummins or Starc don’t have rugby bodies. Blessing would be lifted up and piledrived into the turf. And surely kids know that Zimbabwe cricket is more lucrative than Zim rugby.
If they are thinking of the two sports beyond Zim, then it’s meaningless anyway as a premise.
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jaybro
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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by jaybro »

It all comes down to identify the talent then coaching it

Zimbabwe has a few tall guys who look capable of bowling fast, but they all have technical issues with their action. Sloan will be able to give a better assessment than I.

I remember one of my first major 'ZCF Debates' was with Flowerpower about Mpofu and his 'power-puff' action as I described it. For a guy his height I've always thought he should be bending his back and putting more heat on his deliveries, instead of his gentle action.

It seems most Zim bowlers all bowl with these 'gentle actions' they don't hit the pitch hard or put any heat on the ball, just putting the ball on the spot ain't going to do anything, even if your not quick but you still hit the deck hard, you'll get reward.
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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by Kriterion_BD »

To me its purely a numbers game. Its debatable if the ability to bowl pure pace is mostly genetic, cultural, or dietary. My theory is that its a combination of all three ie its multifactorial. Skill is virtually exclusive of pace, and factors into the discussion later.

Take the entire group of high school age cricketers in a given location eg New South Wales or Uttar Pradesh. How fast is the average 15-18 year old seam bowler? Around the world I would say the average U-19er from a Test nation is around 128 clicks or 80 mph. At the last World Cup, the quicker kids were around 135 average (maybe 5-10 in the whole tournament) and the quickest eg Tyagi or Coetzee were around 138 on average.

But you have to realize that there are maybe 10-20 thousand serious youth crickters in NSW (just guessing) and maybe 100,000 in UP (a million in all of India). How many in Zimbabwe? At most maybe 500.

So out of 500 kids, it will be highly unlikely to find many that are 135 average. Matigumu and Blessing were thus gems in terms of pure pace.

But pure pace does not a good or successful bowler make. Bowling the right areas consistently, knowing when to try what delivery, patience, and a strong work ethic are all essential to making a great fast bowler.
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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:58 pm
To me its purely a numbers game. Its debatable if the ability to bowl pure pace is mostly genetic, cultural, or dietary. My theory is that its a combination of all three ie its multifactorial. Skill is virtually exclusive of pace, and factors into the discussion later.

Take the entire group of high school age cricketers in a given location eg New South Wales or Uttar Pradesh. How fast is the average 15-18 year old seam bowler? Around the world I would say the average U-19er from a Test nation is around 128 clicks or 80 mph. At the last World Cup, the quicker kids were around 135 average (maybe 5-10 in the whole tournament) and the quickest eg Tyagi or Coetzee were around 138 on average.

But you have to realize that there are maybe 10-20 thousand serious youth crickters in NSW (just guessing) and maybe 100,000 in UP (a million in all of India). How many in Zimbabwe? At most maybe 500.

So out of 500 kids, it will be highly unlikely to find many that are 135 average. Matigumu and Blessing were thus gems in terms of pure pace.

But pure pace does not a good or successful bowler make. Bowling the right areas consistently, knowing when to try what delivery, patience, and a strong work ethic are all essential to making a great fast bowler.
I’d say SERIOUS youth cricketers in NSW would be closer to 3000 in NSW and 150 in Zim.

Definition of serious being kids playing in teams that are r park cricket.

Cricket is popular in Australia only in a casual sense and a lot of people play pub cricket.
Cricket is everyone’s summer sport. Mainly due to friendly tv scheduling. 95% of Aussie fans wouldn’t know any cricketer outside the star names in Oz and overseas. I think I know one guy who could name 2 Bangladeshi players.
They like Smith, Starc, Lyon, Warner and Cummins and that’s it. That’s the Aussie cricket fan.
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Andybligzz
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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by Andybligzz »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:02 am
Kriterion_BD wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:58 pm
To me its purely a numbers game. Its debatable if the ability to bowl pure pace is mostly genetic, cultural, or dietary. My theory is that its a combination of all three ie its multifactorial. Skill is virtually exclusive of pace, and factors into the discussion later.

Take the entire group of high school age cricketers in a given location eg New South Wales or Uttar Pradesh. How fast is the average 15-18 year old seam bowler? Around the world I would say the average U-19er from a Test nation is around 128 clicks or 80 mph. At the last World Cup, the quicker kids were around 135 average (maybe 5-10 in the whole tournament) and the quickest eg Tyagi or Coetzee were around 138 on average.

But you have to realize that there are maybe 10-20 thousand serious youth crickters in NSW (just guessing) and maybe 100,000 in UP (a million in all of India). How many in Zimbabwe? At most maybe 500.

So out of 500 kids, it will be highly unlikely to find many that are 135 average. Matigumu and Blessing were thus gems in terms of pure pace.

But pure pace does not a good or successful bowler make. Bowling the right areas consistently, knowing when to try what delivery, patience, and a strong work ethic are all essential to making a great fast bowler.
I’d say SERIOUS youth cricketers in NSW would be closer to 3000 in NSW and 150 in Zim.

Definition of serious being kids playing in teams that are r park cricket.

Cricket is popular in Australia only in a casual sense and a lot of people play pub cricket.
Cricket is everyone’s summer sport. Mainly due to friendly tv scheduling. 95% of Aussie fans wouldn’t know any cricketer outside the star names in Oz and overseas. I think I know one guy who could name 2 Bangladeshi players.
They like Smith, Starc, Lyon, Warner and Cummins and that’s it. That’s the Aussie cricket fan.
As a fellow Aussie this is so on the money it’s not funny. “ I don’t like cricket but the big bash is alright , starting to like cricket actually “ had that convo with so many of my idiot friends . Infuriated me as a pure cricket lover . Us Aussies are genuine bone heads and so fucking narrow minded in anything outside “ straya “ people think I’m crazy that I can watch a whole day of test cricket from the pregame to the final ball . Most passionate and genuine lovers of the game are the asian fans . Absolutely breathe the game , no one will turn on you when you are losing more than us Aussies . Hate it .
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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

I think people are shocked how unpopular cricket truly is in Oz.
Does it have a lot of casual fans? Yes?
Majority? No.

It’s all AFL and NRL.
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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by Kriterion_BD »

By serious youth cricketers, I meant kids that play organized cricket (with umpires, actual kits, someone keeping score, etc). Not just a bunch of guys playing tape tennis in a parking lot wearing Jordans and gym shorts.

But I am aware how unpopular cricket is even in England and Australia. My buddy and I went to the Bangladesh vs New Zealand game at last year's World Cup and spent 4-5 days in London. I think the women's soccer world cup was going on concurrently, there were more ads and fanfare for the women's soccer world cup in France than there was for the men's cricket world cup happening in England. There were more ads for the american NFL than there was for the CWC. As a cricket fan, it actually made me sad. But it also proved how little the ICC cares about bringing new fans into the game. 3 billion dollar event, and you can't put up a few posters at Heathrow's international arrivals terminal?
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Re: Match Thread | Zimbabwe vs Bangladesh | Mirpur, Dhaka | 2020

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:08 pm
By serious youth cricketers, I meant kids that play organized cricket (with umpires, actual kits, someone keeping score, etc). Not just a bunch of guys playing tape tennis in a parking lot wearing Jordans and gym shorts.

But I am aware how unpopular cricket is even in England and Australia. My buddy and I went to the Bangladesh vs New Zealand game at last year's World Cup and spent 4-5 days in London. I think the women's soccer world cup was going on concurrently, there were more ads and fanfare for the women's soccer world cup in France than there was for the men's cricket world cup happening in England. There were more ads for the american NFL than there was for the CWC. As a cricket fan, it actually made me sad. But it also proved how little the ICC cares about bringing new fans into the game. 3 billion dollar event, and you can't put up a few posters at Heathrow's international arrivals terminal?
Actually funny you mentioned Heathrow.
I was there in November. There was a big wall memorial dedicated to.....David Boon.

In the text below it was talking about how he famously sunk 52 cans on a flight. A world record.

Amusing but so unexpected and random. I’m talking about a very large wall memorial that took up a few panels
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