Is this not the perfect time to start over?

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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Ignoring Tests for right now, how would the ODI side look keeping in mind the WCSL which has already started and which is essentially part 1 of a world cup qualifier.

Zimbabwe need to finish 12th or higher to ensure qualification to the next SL tournament. That means its a direct 3 horse race between ZIM, Ireland, and Netherlands. IMO, the youth have to blooded in now while the seniors like BT, Raza, Ervine, and Williams can still lead the way. I imagine 2023 will probably mark the ends of careers for the Big 4.

BT, Raza, Ervine, Williams, Jarvis, and Chatara form the undroppable core. That leaves 9 spots in the squad and 5 in any given XI. I think Madhevere has cemented one of those spots as a batting allrounder. I would also like to see Tari Musakanda open the batting, perhaps with Taylor with both players having a licence to go over the top of the fielding restrictions. Mire and Cephas could knock off 100 runs off the first 10 overs on their day...but they would only click once in 10 innnings against teams like Nepal or Scotland.

Obviously getting some expats back would be great. But perhaps securing younger players with talent who can play for 12-15 years is equally good. Guys like Murray and others.

I'm drawing some blanks for the remaining positions having not watched cricket in such a long time (thanks, COVID) but what does everyone think of this ODI top order:

1) Taylor
2) Musakanda
3) Ervine
4) Williams
5) Raza
6) Madhevere

Thats a solid start IMO.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Forgot that ZIM start their Super League campaign in just a couple of months during their tour of Pakistan.
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Mueddie28
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by Mueddie28 »

TapsC2 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:59 am
So realistically for us I think we can get an ODI team like this within a few months

BT
Wesley
Musakanda
Williams
Murray(wk)
Burl
Raza
Myers/Shumba
Jarvis
Blessing
Chatara

The only time I would sacrifice BT is if we can use his wages to offer Muyeye and Byrom USD10000 each and they take it. Raza if Lake comes in and Williams if Myers takes off better than we expect. But this can all happen in 2 years
I am itching to put up a lineup
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TapsC2
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by TapsC2 »

What is the peak age for a batsman? Craig is the oldest. He will be 38 by the time the next World Cup is played. BT , Raza and Williams will be 37. I guess Pakistan in October will tell us all we need to know. Can somebody in their mid 30s not play any cricket for half a year and still be ok?

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zimbos_05
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by zimbos_05 »

TapsC2 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:47 am
What is the peak age for a batsman? Craig is the oldest. He will be 38 by the time the next World Cup is played. BT , Raza and Williams will be 37. I guess Pakistan in October will tell us all we need to know. Can somebody in their mid 30s not play any cricket for half a year and still be ok?
Warner, Finch, Elgar are all 33. Anderson is 38. Dhoni played till 39. Azhar Ali is 35, Hafeez 39. Misbah played till he was 40. Imran Tahir is still playing at 40. Gayle played till 40. Faf played till 36.

The point I'm making is that if a player is playing well and maintaining his fitness, then there is no reason why can't play in to his late 30's.

Zim do not have an abundance of roaring talent flowing through the system and staking claims as international first team quality. We are not at liberty to throw away the good quality we have. If players like Elton and Maruma are getting chances at 34 and 32 and are performing miserably, then why throw away the best performer we have. I agree that his age is a concern, but on form and stats he has been the best batsmen in our domestic competition and in our national side for more than a year.

You need to make a solid case for him to be dropped. So far, you haven't wont me over.

foreignfield
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by foreignfield »

TapsC2 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:47 am
Can somebody in their mid 30s not play any cricket for half a year and still be ok?
Provided they kept themselves fit ( I would be more concerned about BT in that respect) I would assume the muscle memory of older players to be not inferior to those of youngsters, rather the contrary.

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by Kriterion_BD »

TapsC2 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:47 am
What is the peak age for a batsman? Craig is the oldest. He will be 38 by the time the next World Cup is played. BT , Raza and Williams will be 37. I guess Pakistan in October will tell us all we need to know. Can somebody in their mid 30s not play any cricket for half a year and still be ok?
BD and ZIm players always have half year breaks. It’s nothing for us. Most of the BD guys have trained on their own through the pandemic.
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ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

It'll come down to fitness and mindset.

It SHOUlDNT be a problem, but you know how we are like. I trust Craig and Raza but don't trust BT as much to stay fit.

I can't help but remember when Hamilton Masakadza got fat and at 35 completely lost it.

35 is usually the magic number where your body starts to naturally deteriorate in cricketing terms. Can easily be overcompensated with fitness for 5 years, but that's when jigsaws clock starts to tick.
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jaybro
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by jaybro »

Been away for a while but I like this thread very interesting indeed

Couple of good points being made regarding building the team around a core group and who will make up that core group. The most telling point is Eugene's in that nothing can be built until they start playing regular cricket, but that's a whole other thread.

IMO the side should be built around a core group of senior experienced players, not a young group of talented inexperienced players. Cricket is a funny sport in that you never ever see a young side do well, unlike in all the major football codes in where you will see teams with an average age of 22-23 win big titles. In cricket experience and 'miles under your belt' are key ingredients to any successful team, batsman and spin bowlers especially need lots of experience and usually don't hit their peak till their 30's. Fast bowlers are the exception where bowlers tend to lose speed as they get older, although most get smarter as well.

Having a side all over 30 isn't the end of the world in fact it should make your side very competitive, you just need to make sure your development programs and A tours are readying players for the step up.

For Zimbabwe the core playing group should be BT, Raz, Williams, Ervine, KJ & Chatara they are the six best players and the most experienced players available, the younger players around them will learn more off these guys than any coach could teach them. You can then fill the side with good young players around them such as Wes, Shumba, Myers, Burl, Tari, Kasuza, Mumba etc

As mentioned by a few others it's guys like Maruma, Chamu, Tiripano, Elton, Chari etc that are blocking the youngsters pathways, there's no point filling the side with Maruma or Chamu when Wes or Shumba are warming the bench.

Core Players
Brendan Taylor
Sean Williams
Sikander Raza
Craig Ervine
Tendai Chatara
Kyle Jarvis

Senior Players (that are still worth selecting)
Tendai Chisoro
Chris Mpofu
Regis Chakabva
Prince Masvaure
Neville Madziva

Young Players
Wes Madhevere
Milton Shumba
Dion Myers
Ryan Burl
Tari Musakanda
Kevin Kasuza
Carl Mumba
Charlton Tshuma
Kuda Macheka
William Mashinge
Luke Jongwe
Tinashe Kamunhuamwe
Brian Mudzinganyama
Ryan Murray
Brandon Mavuta
Richard Ngarava


Probably a few more I've missed here or there but you get the idea
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Is this not the perfect time to start over?

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Good to see most of the ZCF stalwarts from over the years posting in this thread. Essential to keeping this forum alive. Only CrimsonAvenger and zimfan are missing amongst the stalwarts (Maehara no longer posts). Have I forgotten anyone?
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