Glamorgan and Durham to tour Zimbabwe

[secretzimbo]

Not sure what planet you people are on. I guess we'll just have to disagree.

[secretzimbo]

Jongwe actually has good bowling numbers, I think he's our leading T20I wicket-taker of all time? Or he was vying for it with Larry. It's close between the two either way and Jongwe has played fewer matches.

He generally bowls at the death in T20's so he goes for runs, but he takes lots of bloody wickets and his average is excellent. Averages 19 I think? I haven't checked since last year. His record is very good in that format - he's a strike bowler and he makes stuff happen. He has better numbers than Evans and much better than Ngarava, who is an out and out bowler who is supposed to lead the line.

Brad Evans has the potential to do greater things, for sure. He is however, inconsistent thus far and his numbers certainly aren't that great. He hasn't done much consistently with the bat either, despite his obvious talent. I'd say he and Jongwe are on a similar level currently in the shorter formats.

If you think Jongwe has no talent or is over-rated then you, in my opinion, don't watch much cricket or haven't really seen Luke over the years. His problem isn't talent or skill, at all. Hiss issue is obviously his fitness and his off-field issues which nearly killed him.
Mavuta was on national TV in Zimbabwe today - if anyone saw it? - saying he had drink problems a few years ago and how it affected him. Well Jongwe's was a thousand times worse, and it wasn't just drink. He had big issues and he'd done bloody well to come back from it. He remains pretty fat, unfortunately, and this affects his ability big time.

How many players open the batting and open the bowling in the same match? Jongwe did that in age group and even for the U19's a few times. His talent, natural ability and skill is high. I find it really hard to imagine people could disagree with that. Lose a few pounds and try a bit harder and he'd be very good. That's a problem many of our players have unfortunately.

It's less than 12 months ago that Houghton did an interview saying he thought Jongwe had the potential to play in T20 leagues around the world. Maybe you know more than Dave Houghton, I don't know.
Jongwe isn't an arse-licker at all, and isn't that agreeable as a bloke. There's a reason he continues to get selected and it isn't the same reasons people like Makoni or Chibhabha get selected....

[Kriterion_BD]

If you think Jongwe has no talent or is over-rated then you, in my opinion, don't watch much cricket or haven't really seen Luke over the years. His problem isn't talent or skill, at all. Hiss issue is obviously his fitness and his off-field issues which nearly killed him.
Mavuta was on national TV in Zimbabwe today - if anyone saw it? - saying he had drink problems a few years ago and how it affected him. Well Jongwe's was a thousand times worse, and it wasn't just drink. He had big issues and he'd done bloody well to come back from it. He remains pretty fat, unfortunately, and this affects his ability big time.

Regardless of what the circumstances are, his averages are poor and do NOT justify being classified as talented. You're saying he's fat...OK...Darren Gough was fat; he still took wickets. Inzy was fat and he still scored runs. At the end of the day, his fitness and his health have to be incorporated into one single evaluation and that is that he's a very average cricketer. Mohammad Shehzad was fat and still averaged well over 20 with the bat.

Imagine if I said Asghar Afghan was immensely talented because he's he came from a war-torn place and grew up in refugee camps. OK great, thats a sad story, and at the same time inspiring for other atletes...but it doesn't make his numbers any better.

It's less than 12 months ago that Houghton did an interview saying he thought Jongwe had the potential to play in T20 leagues around the world. Maybe you know more than Dave Houghton, I don't know.
Jongwe isn't an arse-licker at all, and isn't that agreeable as a bloke. There's a reason he continues to get selected and it isn't the same reasons people like Makoni or Chibhabha get selected....

Yes, I'd have to call BS on Houghton for that. Its one thing to back your players, another to just make up stuff.

If Jongwe bowls mostly in death...that would explain his low bowling average...guys just getting out slogging. But his econ rate tells the real story. An economy rate of 8.93 is high even for the death overs. You concede 9 on the final over, at best thats OK.

[secretzimbo]

Jeez. Did he once give you a dodgy spliff or something?

[sloandog]

Jongwe has talent and indisputable talent. He's just overweight. I like him in the shortest format and even the ODI format to a lesser degree. Would much rather see Brad Evans in test cricket, though.

[jaybro]

Without looking I would have though 8.93 is a reasonable economy rate for a death bowler in t20s?

I can't say I watch enough t20 cricket to know who are the best death bowlers in the world, but I believe Chris Jordan is seen as a very good one? His economy is 8.71

https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers ... dan-288992

Another who I know is a specialist death bowler is AJ Tye from Australia, his economy is 8.75

https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers ... tye-459508

Jongwe has the talent with bat & ball, but for the all the reasons already pointed out, he has underachieved in his career. Kriterion has always been a huge critic of Jongwe, I remember him once saying "I'm not sure what Jongwe does with a bat, but you can't call it batting" or something along those lines.

Jongwe has a bit of Vusi Sibanda about him, he can do special things and provide match winning moments, but he's not consistent enough nor is he committed enough imo. He's the type of guy you need to keep on his toes, and I think Dave has worked that out as he leaves him out of the side regularly and usually Jongwe returns with a good performance as we saw with the 3rd T20 v Ireland.

Evans seems a very committed and consistent player, but I'm starting to think his ceiling isn't as high as I first thought. I initially thought this guy is only going to get better and better (and he might) but I'm not as sure now, I think maybe he's already close to his best version of himself.

[mnelson68]

Not sure what planet you people are on. I guess we'll just have to disagree.

My take on Jongwe is that he has the ability and talent to be a serious oneday / T20 allrounder but i can't rate him simply because he doesn't work hard enough and is far too casual in his approach to the game. It looks as if he goes through the motions half the time and isn't as fit as he could be .

[TapsC2]

I have always thought that Jongwe is a poor man's Andile Phehlukwayo on his day he can do something but most of the time you are wondering why he is in the team.

I think once Evans figures out how not to deliver one ridiculously bad ball an over, Jongwe is gone. For now their competition is healthy. Jongwe might actually just be ahead of Evans in T20s

[Kriterion_BD]

Without looking I would have though 8.93 is a reasonable economy rate for a death bowler in t20s?

Reasonable...but not anything eye-catching. Just a few scenarios for T20:

Batting team is at 200-2 after 19 overs...the final over goes for 9. No one is going to call that a solid over. Its merely meh. Could be worse, but could be better.

Batting team is at 100-8 after 19 overs...the final over goes for 9. That might actually be considered a poor effort in context.

Batting team is at 155-5 after 19 overs...the final over goes for 9. Again its not going to raise any eyebrows.

Good in the death is 7 an over. Great is anything under 6. 9 is distinctly average.

And thats assuming his death overs economy rate is 9...it may well be higher.

Bumrah is a death overs bowler...probably the best in the world and his econ is around 6.5. The Fizz is up there as well...econ 7.65.

[Kriterion_BD]

I wouldn't say Jongwe is like Sibanda. Sibanda looked sublime...Jongwe just looks awkward. On the other hand, I don't think Sibanda won too many games for his side.

The best comparison, like for like as well, would be Jongwe to Chigumbura. Both over-rated, both similar type of player. But Elton was a far better batter and at least on par with the ball.