[Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Participate in discussion with your fellow Zimbabwe cricket fans!
Kriterion_BD
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by Kriterion_BD »

CrimsonAvenger wrote:
Kriterion_BD wrote:Didn't watch the last 10 overs or so, but I think this is generally expected of most sides in this stage of a Test.
No, this was not just excessive appealing in the excitement of getting closer to winning the match. It was clearly putting pressure on the umpires with insane levels of appealing. 4 balls in a row. and a couple of balls later, a huge appeal for a direct hit while the batsman was in the crease all along. Subcontinental teams are very bad with this. Sri Lanka to a lesser extent, but the other 3 for sure. They need to behave better when they are moving towards a victory.
Fair point of criticism.

However, I think match context brings that out of all teams. When a team is is getting clobbered you will see their shoulders droop and unless its absolutely plumb or an obvious edge, appeals are half hearted and little more than an after thought. When a team is on the ascendancy or going for the kill, they will pretty much appeal at everything. Its an adrenaline issue more than one of bullying umpires.

When we started our 2nd innings, Shingi and Jarvis belted out appeals for two of the most obvious calls ever and won. At least no harm has come from our excessive appealing. Had we had those wickets intact, this game may have been long over by now.

And I believe the Aussies at one time were pretty notorious for bullying umpires too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYq6auq5cyQ (Jaylen Brown, 2024 NBA Finals MVP)

foreignfield
Posts: 4944
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:39 am
Supports: Mountaineers

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by foreignfield »

A wrong decision is a wrong decision, giving a tailender wrongfully out is as a bad a decision as shooting out an opener, as far as the decision is concerned. Unless you think the umpires give a batsman out on purpose because he plays for Team A or B (conspiracy theories). I think you can't say the umpires in this series have been biased towards one side.

But in a way I can understand your anger/frustration/point Kriterion because the cliché that "umpiring mistakes even themselves out" is palpably untrue -- not only in this case. Trouble is nobody has yet come up with Duckworth/Lewis tables for it. It is one of the vagaries of cricket -- especially without DRS which tends to get rid of the howlers (while in turn producing marginal decisions which sometimes are not great either).

User avatar
CrimsonAvenger
Posts: 9854
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:57 am
Supports: Mountaineers
Location: India

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by CrimsonAvenger »

foreignfield wrote:A wrong decision is a wrong decision, giving a tailender wrongfully out is as a bad a decision as shooting out an opener, as far as the decision is concerned
Anyway, we had one right on top (Regis) and one right at the bottom (Shingi).
foreignfield wrote:It is one of the vagaries of cricket -- especially without DRS which tends to get rid of the howlers (while in turn producing marginal decisions which sometimes are not great either).
True (last part). Case in point: Hamilton in the WI test.

But you can still have howlers with DRS in place, like that Ramnaresh Sarwan run out denial in the WI ODIs. Effectively sealed the match for us :(.

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by Kriterion_BD »

foreignfield wrote:A wrong decision is a wrong decision, giving a tailender wrongfully out is as a bad a decision as shooting out an opener, as far as the decision is concerned. Unless you think the umpires give a batsman out on purpose because he plays for Team A or B (conspiracy theories). I think you can't say the umpires in this series have been biased towards one side.

But in a way I can understand your anger/frustration/point Kriterion because the cliché that "umpiring mistakes even themselves out" is palpably untrue -- not only in this case. Trouble is nobody has yet come up with Duckworth/Lewis tables for it. It is one of the vagaries of cricket -- especially without DRS which tends to get rid of the howlers (while in turn producing marginal decisions which sometimes are not great either).
Its true that a wrong decision is wrong regardless of how obvious or unclear it is. Its also true that giving Chris Martin out on a very marginal call is equally wrong to giving Tendulkar out shoulder before wicket. However, the value the wrong decisions are far from equal.

I went back and looked at the CI commentaries for this series (both Tests). It appears that ZIM have gotten 10 wrong calls go against them and BD about 6. I was expecting it to be the other way around! But I guess you only remember the bad calls that go against you. However, in ZIM's case each of the wrong calls individually were "routine" mistakes or "marginal" calls, the likes of which are seen in practically every Test not officiated by the elite umpires (Aleem Dar, Asad Rauf, et al). These calls are wrong, but the inside edges are so faint that one can't really blame the umpires as its human error. These are the ones DRS is needed for the most. There were only 2 "howlers" this series, according to my count so please correct me if I'm wrong, and both were against BD and involved the #1 and #3 batsman. If it was #10 and 11 it would made less of a matter.

Now, that 10-6 split in our favor pretty much off-sets the 2-0 howler split in ZIM's favor. Of course, no one knows for certain, but in that sense the cliche holds true that "umpire errors even out over time".

Thus the umpiring in this series has been pretty poor. It hasn't affected the outcome of either match since they wrong decisions evened out. ZIM got more wrong decisions, but we copped the biggest two. But it has affected the quality of the series. This series would have been of far higher quality if the right calls had been made.

Before, we (Bangladesh) would kind of expect this since we're always the weaker team and another cliche of bad umpiring is that the weaker team always gets the rougher end of the deal. But after this series, I'll bet the BCB will at least attempt to solve the problem as much as possible (i.e financing DRS in as many of our series as possible).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYq6auq5cyQ (Jaylen Brown, 2024 NBA Finals MVP)

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by Kriterion_BD »

CrimsonAvenger wrote:
But you can still have howlers with DRS in place, like that Ramnaresh Sarwan run out denial in the WI ODIs. Effectively sealed the match for us :(.
I saw the replay of that run out. What was the deal with that? Are run outs not referabble or did ZIM run out of referrals? There is no way that decision could not have been over turned.

Granted, in a 7 wicket result, its unlikely one dismissal would change the result of a match. We've had a few close calls against India where we've been defending large totals like 270 or 290 and we get a plumb lbw not given and that guy goes on to score a match winning hundred. But usually we lose by 5 wickets or more so in the end it doesn't really affect the outcome much if at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYq6auq5cyQ (Jaylen Brown, 2024 NBA Finals MVP)

User avatar
Yorker
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:52 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos
Location: Durban.

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by Yorker »

eugene wrote:The Masakadza's must like New Zealand, although I don't remember a place called Shingirai.
:lol:

foreignfield
Posts: 4944
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:39 am
Supports: Mountaineers

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by foreignfield »

They are playing "Stayin' alive" between overs. :D

foreignfield
Posts: 4944
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:39 am
Supports: Mountaineers

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by foreignfield »

foreignfield wrote:Anyone who knows what is the Zim record for a nightwatchman?
To answer my own question, I think it's Travis Friend's 44 off 142 balls against SL in Colombo 2001. Second best is Gary Brent 25 off 54 against BD in 2001.

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by Kriterion_BD »

What is Ed Rainsford up to these days? A few of ya'll were talking about including him. Does he still play? Is he in contention for the ODI side?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYq6auq5cyQ (Jaylen Brown, 2024 NBA Finals MVP)

foreignfield
Posts: 4944
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:39 am
Supports: Mountaineers

Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Bangladesh: 2nd Test

Post by foreignfield »

Kriterion_BD wrote:What is Ed Rainsford up to these days? A few of ya'll were talking about including him. Does he still play? Is he in contention for the ODI side?
Had a brilliant domestic season and was in the preliminary squad for this series. Unlucky not to go to the Windies in the opinion of many here. hope to see him in a Zim shirt again in the future.

Post Reply