Zimbabwe rising stars

[Jemisi]

Africans have Ham as a forefather but they are not cursed. The specific curse is personal, not on every descendant.

Privilege exists all over the place. I am privileged for many reasons. Most of them relate to the work of my parents rather than the shade of my skin. Denying privilege is foolish. There is inequality in the world.

On the other hand, overplaying privilege is also foolish. How much does white privilege prevent black success in America for example? How much harder was it for Obama to be elected president than Bush? It would certainly have been harder but in the end both of them won two elections.

Cultures have different advantages. African cultures are superior to European cultures in various ways but some cultural expectations cause difficulties in the world economic system. The Northern Europeans have work ethic expectations that are different from what is common in Africa. That has consequences. It isn't that individual Africans or Europeans can't differ from the norm or change as they see fit, but common cultural assumptions and expectations do affect the prosperity of a nation.

It is harder for a black Zim player to succeed than a white Zim player because of the advantages the whites have generally enjoyed, but don't overplay the difference. It is a factor of some percent but not the be all and end all by any stretch.

[Kriterion_BD]

Africans have Ham as a forefather but they are not cursed. The specific curse is personal, not on every descendant.

Lets keep things in the realm of empirical facts (ie an academic discussion). This isn't a religious discussion as much as it is a socio-economic and anthropological one.

Privilege exists all over the place. I am privileged for many reasons. Most of them relate to the work of my parents rather than the shade of my skin. Denying privilege is foolish. There is inequality in the world.

On the other hand, overplaying privilege is also foolish. How much does white privilege prevent black success in America for example? How much harder was it for Obama to be elected president than Bush? It would certainly have been harder but in the end both of them won two elections.

Absolutely. Privilege is a real, and personal responsibility is also real. Skin color is only one part of the privilege equation.

But there is a difference in the Obama Presidency vs the Bush one. Firstly, Obama is the only president who had his birth called into question. Kennedy has his loyalty questioned, and thats bad enough, but Obama actually proved he was American by birth, and the gravity of that is something that is lost to many. If I were him, I would have refused to release my birth certificate without a court order and let people say whatever they want about me.

No other president's agenda was objected the way Obama's was, and it was solely because he was black. What is the black president going to do, complain about white privilege?

Trump is facing the same level of obstructionism, but that has nothing to do with his race.

Cultures have different advantages. African cultures are superior to European cultures in various ways but some cultural expectations cause difficulties in the world economic system. The Northern Europeans have work ethic expectations that are different from what is common in Africa. That has consequences. It isn't that individual Africans or Europeans can't differ from the norm or change as they see fit, but common cultural assumptions and expectations do affect the prosperity of a nation.

True, but cultures don't just emerge from a vacuum. There are causes and effects of any culture.

It is harder for a black Zim player to succeed than a white Zim player because of the advantages the whites have generally enjoyed, but don't overplay the difference. It is a factor of some percent but not the be all and end all by any stretch.

This part is not true. At least not in a meaningful manner. At any level, is the cricketing infrastructure of Zimbabwe holding black cricketers back?

The reality is that the black ZIM cricketers do not have the collective ability to play the game the white ZIM players have. Stuart Carlilse was an average white cricketer amongst the ZIM pantheon of the Flower brothers, Houghton, Goodwin, Taylor, Ervine, etc. He still averages more than pretty much every black batsman that has played the game for Zimbabwe, Taibu being the only exception I can think of. And no, I'm aware Hammy averages slightly more perhaps, but when factor the strength of the opposition, I'm sure Carslile comes out ahead.

[Jemisi]

Whether you think the curse real or not is not the point Kriterion. Misquoting a source is an issue. Plus the racists have used this badly in Africa.

Your Obama comments are not at odds with my point. He had it harder than the average white bloke but still managed what he managed.

I don't think the structure is against black players, I just think that in general white privilege counts for something in Zim. In that context it is harder to make it for a black player than the average white one, who tends to have all his kit from a young age, has generational expertise backing him, gets dropped off and picked up from practise etc.

[TapsC]

There are a few closet racists here.. you can believe whatever you want to believe. Call us cursed, stupid, corrupt or whatever you want if it makes you sleep better at night. It's funny how people are quick to want to ban the hhm's of this forum but ignore things like this. But anyway I will leave it at that.

I think instead of a quota system they should have a development fund. The West Indians have shown black people can play the game really well if everything is done right. Use money to unearth talents in less privileged areas. Eventually people will make it on merit. It will take time but it will happen. Especially unearthing power hitters and fast bowlers. I think that is where you could find talent. A country like South Africa especially should have enough money to penetrate the less developed areas. We don't have that kind of money yet

[tawac]

Meanwhile on the cricketing Front the Zimbabwe Rising Stars made up of mainly black players had an excellent month of July with only one lose. The young stars have had and good tour. Ngarava cleaning up most of the opposition. definitely something to work with there despite of his back ground whatever that is. Even young Dion Myers starting playing the game at the age of 3. Very poor back ground he should have been born holding a bat.

[TapsC]

And i agree with Jemisi for cricket because it's not like football where they only need a ball to play. Sports like Cricket, golf, tennis are taught very early and require a lot of resources. You can have all the talent in the worlds but someone who has had the material and human recourses from day 1 will always have something over you even if they are relatively less talented..

[Kriterion_BD]

Whether you think the curse real or not is not the point Kriterion. Misquoting a source is an issue. Plus the racists have used this badly in Africa.

Your Obama comments are not at odds with my point. He had it harder than the average white bloke but still managed what he managed.

I don't think the structure is against black players, I just think that in general white privilege counts for something in Zim. In that context it is harder to make it for a black player than the average white one, who tends to have all his kit from a young age, has generational expertise backing him, gets dropped off and picked up from practise etc.

Yeah I think the concept of a benevelnt God cursing billions of people for the wrongs committed by one man makes no sense. But I also dont believe one man should get butchered on a cross for wrongs of everyone else.

Well apart from Obamacare, Obama wasnt really allowed to succeed. and he handled it all with the class and grace you would except from a Pope.

OK I guess that example you cited is white privilege. I can agree with that. but thats not due to some sinister motive of whites. but that is the point that racists like Shapiro deny exist. not all of white privilege is the fault of whites; much of it is just a relic of our times. and thats how you know when someone is a racist. they cant even allow you to say its not totally malicious.

[Kriterion_BD]

And i agree with Jemisi for cricket because it's not like football where they only need a ball to play. Sports like Cricket, golf, tennis are taught very early and require a lot of resources. You can have all the talent in the worlds but someone who has had the material and human recourses from day 1 will always have something over you even if they are relatively less talented..

not always, there have been examples of late comers in cricket who have excelled.

[Jemisi]

Whether you think the curse real or not is not the point Kriterion. Misquoting a source is an issue. Plus the racists have used this badly in Africa.

Your Obama comments are not at odds with my point. He had it harder than the average white bloke but still managed what he managed.

I don't think the structure is against black players, I just think that in general white privilege counts for something in Zim. In that context it is harder to make it for a black player than the average white one, who tends to have all his kit from a young age, has generational expertise backing him, gets dropped off and picked up from practise etc.

Yeah I think the concept of a benevelnt God cursing billions of people for the wrongs committed by one man makes no sense. But I also dont believe one man should get butchered on a cross for wrongs of everyone else.

Well apart from Obamacare, Obama wasnt really allowed to succeed. and he handled it all with the class and grace you would except from a Pope.

OK I guess that example you cited is white privilege. I can agree with that. but thats not due to some sinister motive of whites. but that is the point that racists like Shapiro deny exist. not all of white privilege is the fault of whites; much of it is just a relic of our times. and thats how you know when someone is a racist. they cant even allow you to say its not totally malicious.

I thought you said you didn't want a religious discussion?

No, not all privilege is bad or even unfair. Why shouldn't a father teach a son to hold a bat? The outcome of such training produces an inequality between the lad and his peers who have not been similarly equipped. It is better to acknowledge advantage with gratitude rather than denial.

[Flakeman]

Kriterion, you are obviously very liberal and I don't think we will ever have a reasonable discussion. Ben Shapiro is a devout Jew, last time I checked they were the most anti Nazi people there are. You pre-judgement of the man is silly, as no liberal person or news outlet have even attempted to take him down. His arguements are sound and has never lost in a debate with the left. Before you judge him, listen to him. There is honestly nobody smarter.

I agree Tomi Lahren isn't too great but of all the political analysts in the states, there is really nobody on the left who is even semi great ! Nobody touches Ben Shapiro, as progressive water buffalo Cenk Uygar found out on Saturday.

As for the black thing, I think we are all wasting our breath. The proof is in the pudding, really.

The fact that you say Obama had it tough is proof of where you lay on the political compass.
He was a terrible president in almost all major parts of his role. He was a good public speaker and had the media in his back pocket, he got re-elected despite having a useless first 4 years in which he created ISIS, by leaving the vacuum in Libya. In that sense, the opposite of the badly spoken Trump and who is being torn apart by the liberal media, despite doing a pretty good job so far in terms of foreign policy and the economy.