Grant Flower interview

[CrimsonAvenger]

A detailed, insightful Grant Flower interview: http://thecricketmonthly.com/story/1118 ... -adversity

[pariah]

"My brother said they'd rather not have it that way. He didn't want it to be seen as a protest that included too many white guys. One white guy and one black guy would send a much stronger political statement."

Staged, feigned principles and morality. Add con-artist to Zimbabwe's greatest batsmen's list of accolades.

"The build-up was huge. Our coach at the time was John Hampshire. We didn't have a solid first-class cricketing structure. We played some two-day matches as preparation for that Test. But I just remember him trying to educate us, telling us to bat sessions and to wear the bowlers down. We didn't have world-beaters in our side, but we had very competitive cricketers.

"I remember the one mantra he had - to keep things simple and get the simple things done well. We did try and do that, play long periods, bowl one side of the wicket, and try and bore the Indians, whether we were batting or bowling. We nearly got them to follow on."

Wise words. John Hampshire would have had a place for the Terrence Duffins, Panyangaras and Ed Rainsfords of this world.

He's far more comfortable talking about cricket as presumably he believes it should be played: a team sport where everyone sticks together.

Explains why they sat to eat or travel separately. So many sad and dark things Grant fails to mention.

England had made their discontent at being made to play in the country clear, and ended up forfeiting their game there. Flower believes they were justified in pulling out, saying the English players were getting threats "that their families would be targeted" if they came to Zimbabwe, and that certain elements in Zimbabwe were trying to make a political statement.

Your mate Alistair Campbell took Zimbabwean kids to a terror-tidden Pakistan that was trying to make a political statement too.

Flower is slightly vague about what the crux of the disagreement was

To be expected. Not easy to defend the indefensible.

Flower says it would have been a surprise if a player of colour had decided to join their strike, but that's not to say he didn't try. "I did go and speak to Taibu. I was probably naïve in going to speak to him."As it happened, the board called their bluff, sacked the striking players.

Runs in the family. Corrupt one innocent African youngster to prove a point in a "bluff"!

"I got told by Ozias Bvute [ZCU's director of integration] that my services weren't required, and that I could go overseas and play county cricket and take a lot of my white counterparts with me and Zimbabwe cricket would be better off for it."

Bvute remains a hero to many in Zimbabwe for this stance, yet equally hated internationally for this.

A career spanning over two decades of association with Zimbabwe cricekt, and several negative things overlooked, yet somehow still find space for three paragraphs to dedicate to Utseya (just one less than KP-Andy ), the "good" things of Campbell, but no mention of Olonga's brother and family's thoughts on Zimbabwe, Mugabe and that stunt? Very impressive Mr Editor! Pretty sure Mr Rasool had them in his draft.

If Zimbabwe can somehow manage their finances better and lure the players back with good salary structures and good domestic structures in place, there's a chance Zimbabwe cricket can get back to where it should be.

Zimbabwe did lure Mire back and he's done well. They lured Lamb back, but in hindsight they probably wouldn't have. Probably a good thing they failed with Anthony Ireland, because there were several better seamers around. No guarantees Sean Ervine's bowling would have been effective, but would his batting have demanded that good a salary? Only difference with Brenda is Zimbabwe need someone who can bat well and keep for the sake of their ODI&T20 balance and success, so worth the risk, if he's not asking for too much. Otherwise the rest aren't much better than the average quota 16yr old in SA.

NB: So Dave Houghton gave Alan Butcher to ZC, and Alistair Campbell gave Grant to ZC?

[sloandog]

If anybody needed proof that Hhm twists statements to fit his own, spiteful, small minded agenda, look no further.

The chip on your shoulder is well and truly visible for all to see, again..

[Robbo]

Well said Sloandog...

[eugene]

Staged, feigned principles and morality. Add con-artist to Zimbabwe's greatest batsmen's list of accolades.

No, you are wrong. One white and one black player displayed that Mugabe's identity politics was being used as a cover for persecution of all Zimbabweans. If you want to side with a murderous despotic regime that is your choice, but it gives little credibility to any of your moral stances.

Bvute remains a hero to many in Zimbabwe for this stance, yet equally hated internationally for this.

Bvute is nobody's hero. He turned what was a solvable player dispute into a decade-long destruction of cricket in the country and suspension of test status. The game is in far poorer shape now than it was then.

[pariah]

If anybody needed proof that Hhm twists statements to fit his own, spiteful, small minded agenda, look no further.

The chip on your shoulder is well and truly visible for all to see, again..

Play the ball not the man. Doesn; thelp when you issue blanket statements without pointing to specifics.

In any case, maybe you should read more young man ... http://www.tomdecastella.com/the-last-h ... t-monthly/

Plus that book - "The Good Murungu". Remember it?

You will actually find that people like Robin Brown and Alan Butcher, Ahmed Ebrahim, Ali Shah and even Henry Olonga too actually agree with me! What then?

[pariah]

No, you are wrong. One white and one black player displayed that Mugabe's identity politics was being used as a cover for persecution of all Zimbabweans. If you want to side with a murderous despotic regime that is your choice, but it gives little credibility to any of your moral stances.

Bvute is nobody's hero. He turned what was a solvable player dispute into a decade-long destruction of cricket in the country and suspension of test status. The game is in far poorer shape now than it was then.

Don't make this about me. Focus on the article and give your own comments about the person being interviwed, not me or Mugabe or his government.

Would you have been happy if Taibu had followed Grant's requests - just as Andy had done to young Olonga - and poor Taibu ended up having no cricket career just like Olonga - struggling with no "opera talents" to fall back on, meanwhile the likes of Malcolm Waller and Sean Williams earned more than Bangladeshi and Sri lankan cricket stars??? They had no business convincing youngsters to side with them.

If Murphy and Grant wanted to be part of that armband thing they Andy should have allowed them to do so and not approached olonga. It's an obvious lie that Henry knew about this stunt before Grant. Do you really believe they got wind of that later, after old Andy and poor young Olonga had "arranged everything in secrecy?

Many of you forget Andy Flower's interview. When Andy did this he had already moved his family and signed a rich cricket contract remember, and had left Zimbabwe, never to return. One would argue he was incentivised to do so. Again, you must read more. What about Olonga? I take it you're not aware of what he experienced right - apart from Zimbabwe govt-related pressure?

I'm speaking from facts not twisting anything. Where I'm speculating then the balance of probabilities would render me a winner of any civil suit in this regard.

[eugene]

Zimbabwean players have suffered for 20 years because of their inability to unite against ZC. If they all got onboard and refused to play things would actually improve. Instead the young guys are manipulated by ZC into thinking that their only future is siding with ZC. Taibu had a chance to change things for the better and he missed the boat. Ultimately his loyalty meant little as he was used and abused by ZC like all those before him.

Plus you should also ask why protesting against the government means your cricketing career is over? It should have no bearing on one's career, but because of the nature of the Mugabe regime it does. That should tell you all you need to know about the Zimbabwean government and ZC.

[pariah]

Zimbabwean players have suffered for 20 years because of their inability to unite against ZC. If they all got onboard and refused to play things would actually improve. Instead the young guys are manipulated by ZC into thinking that their only future is siding with ZC. Taibu had a chance to change things for the better and he missed the boat. Ultimately his loyalty meant little as he was used and abused by ZC like all those before him.

Plus you should also ask why protesting against the government means your cricketing career is over? It should have no bearing on one's career, but because of the nature of the Mugabe regime it does. That should tell you all you need to know about the Zimbabwean government and ZC.

You've travelled Africa, and I'm surprised you use the word suffering so loosely. Anyway, Taibu did protest against ZC but played for Zimbabwe several times again after that. He was also legitimately fined or suspended for his own indiscipline a few times.

But when Taibu protested against ZC he did so of his own volition. In both instances 2003 Olonga-armband and 2004 Taibu-Strike, did they just up and decide to act or were asked and invited to do so? With that in mind, and your use of the word "manipulative", ask yourself who was doing the manipulating.

I gave you a link to read which discusses this issue when it was still fresh and interviewed plenty people including ECB's Morgan. It also gives you insight into the kind of people Andy and Grant are. Plus you have Butcher's book and also audio of Andy's interview with BBC Radio. Many points in there back up what I say and present other angles, but you're more interested in deflecting and pointing fingers at a 20 year old yet the rebels themselves decided to leave Brendan Taylor out of it because they said on record "he is young and we don't want to hurt his future prospects". Why expect different from Taibu?

Ask yourself why Watambwa left. I encourage you to read his interview. Don't speak for Zimbabwean players. They will write they own books just like Gibbs did or give interviews just like Ntini did. Utseya wrote a letter, so did Black cricketers here in SA.

Once again, this article is about cricket and cricketers, not about Mugabe, Zimbabwe and it's government. If you want to discuss that I'm pretty sure there's an Other Section that caters for such.

[jaybro]

If anybody needed proof that Hhm twists statements to fit his own, spiteful, small minded agenda, look no further.

The chip on your shoulder is well and truly visible for all to see, again..

+1