Dean at Stumps: Brendan Taylor

[sloandog]

As well as some exciting youngsters coming through like Nathan Waller. Hard hitting lower order batter and a dependable limited overs seamer. Exactly what Chigumbura started off as, and then tailed off into oblivion

[pariah]

Matsi with better tools have battled in that position.

but somehow we believe Mire can, despite all the flaws we've seen.

At least Mire gives a shit and shows some emotion when he's out. Chigumbura had no ticker, nothing. Uninspiring as a captain, molded into an even worse bowler and his batting for the past 4-5 years was nothing short of embarrassing. He probably came good once every 10 innings (no doubt a stat will be coming my way), yet you put him in such high regard and Mire so low.

I'll be really disappointed if Chigumbura is ever in a Zimbabwe shirt again. He's done nothing domestically, no longer bowls and we now have Mire who can do what he did and more.

Cricket discussions at ZCF will always degenerae into arguements if we allow emotion and general sentiment to overide genuine viewpoints.

Whether we like it or not, no other bataman has dominated top bowlers as much as Elton over the years for Zimbabwe. NONE!

There was also a time when Matsi was a more higher regarded batsman for ZIM than all of Hami, Taibu, Vusi, Taylor, Ebrahim and Elton(more of a bowler then). This is not a invitation to bash players needlessly. Mire good, but not top 3 good. He's not even Miller/Farhaan/Albie good.

[pariah]

As well as some exciting youngsters coming through like Nathan Waller. Hard hitting lower order batter and a dependable limited overs seamer. Exactly what Chigumbura started off as, and then tailed off into oblivion

Nathan will be 26 and has achieved nothing. In all fairness I think such comments are downright wrong and unfair on Chigumbura. Nathan's career WILL end without him ever being anywhere near what Elton is even if you describe it as mediocrity. Heck since Test resumption in 2011, his cousing Malcolm still has an inferior Test batting and bowling record to Chigumbura!

NB: I've read all this talk about the demeanor of Utseya and now Elton, and I wonder that that's got to do with anything. Samuels and Jimmy Anderson(among selveral players for example), have the exact same thing, but it's not an issue. One is average the latter a world beater, but still. Stop with the unwarranted personality attacks and stick to cricket.

[sloandog]

Stop with the unwarranted personality attacks and stick to cricket.

And yet you have the audacity to call the new managing director a 'Pakistani'... of which I've had to bite my lip every time i see.

I speak facts, and so does the forum.

Is Elton Chigumbura any longer a player of international class? No; fact!
Has Elton Chigumbura done anything domestically to deserve a spot in our line up? No; fact!
Is Nathan Waller a more worth while investment than Elton Chigumbura as he stands right now? Yes; fact!
Should Nathan Waller be given a chance in at least some T20 games? Yes; fact! Stats show he deserves a chance ten fold.
Was Stuart Matsikinyeri ever a dependable batter in our side, with 13 half centuries in 113 ODI's and zero hundreds? No; fact!

You're so hell bent on your facts pal, perhaps you should have a look at them and come back to us on this forum a more diplomatic individual. You revile Sean Williams, you ignore the class Ryan Burl evidently has, you (for reasons beyond me) think Cremer is not an international class legspinner, and to top it all off, you cringe at the thought of our best ever ODI batsmen coming back into the side, and arguably the most penetrable bowler we've produced since Heath Streak. Need some facts? Jarvis has taken wickets for fun in both FC and List A Cricket for Lancashire, while BT has scored heavily for Nottingham.

[Googly]

I'm not sure about Nathan Waller. he bowls military medium and is a dependable lower order batsman, but he's not going to set it alight.
There's no doubting Williams' ability with bat and ball, but his off field antics mean you don't know who's arriving on any given day.
I think this 4 year stint Jarvis has done will have matured him and he's going to bring a lot more to the table this time around. I hope both he and BT will bring some of that county professionalism into the squad sessions, I think that's been lacking on occasion. It will be easy for BT to fall into his old ways in training, he's lazy, and he doesn't set a good example, despite being our best bat by a distance. Does he become Captain again? He knows his stuff, but he's an uninspiring leader. It sounds like I'm gunning him, but I'm not, a lot rests on his shoulders and I wish him well. I hope there's fresh interest as we're starting to look like a reasonable unit. I think the players dragged weed in the past because of the off-field nonsense, but there's competition for spots now. Waiting for that first race card to be pulled by a disgruntled player.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Stop with the unwarranted personality attacks and stick to cricket.

And yet you have the audacity to call the new managing director a 'Pakistani'... of which I've had to bite my lip every time i see.

In fairness to Pariah and as I've explained to you before and even pointed out newspaper headlines, there is no country outside the U.K. That finds that term offensive.

By far and away most people wouldn't even know that's a slur by British definition.
Because one country decides something is now randomly offensive doesn't mean everyone else should follow suit.

I myself wouldn't have known had I not read a British article on it once a few years back.

[eugene]

Pakistani is offensive?

[Kriterion_BD]

In fairness to Pariah and as I've explained to you before and even pointed out newspaper headlines, there is no country outside the U.K. That finds that term offensive.

By far and away most people wouldn't even know that's a slur by British definition.
Because one country decides something is now randomly offensive doesn't mean everyone else should follow suit.

I myself wouldn't have known had I not read a British article on it once a few years back.

Its probably like the N word and not something white people should say. I use the term myself personally with both Bengalis and Pakistanis and have never had a problem. Of course I never mean it as a slur, but black people don't use the N word as a slur either.

Probably just follows the "i can talk about my mom, but you better not" rule.

[pariah]

Pakistani is offensive?

You can say that again?

[maehara]

Pakistani is offensive?

You can say that again?

In the UK, absolutely. Which is why I have to stop myself from editing it out by reflex every time you use it.