Craig Ervine - Debate

[eugene]

This highlights a big problem we have. If a player loses form where do we send them to regain form? We have nowhere to be honest.

[jaybro]

This highlights a big problem we have. If a player loses form where do we send them to regain form? We have nowhere to be honest.

When these guys go back to domestic cricket they dominate which isn’t a bad thing I guess as they can regain confidence

As for Ervine he’s just in a bad patch he actually looked good yesterday hit two really good boundaries but once agin caught outside off stump, I think he just needs a little luck to go his way and he’ll be fine.

Look at Sakib yesterday he knocked 3-4 drives through slips or gully but was lucky they didn’t go to a fielder

[Kriterion_BD]

Look at Sakib yesterday he knocked 3-4 drives through slips or gully but was lucky they didn’t go to a fielder

Lol Shakib does that almost EVERY innings. No one believes me when I say he is one of the worst batters in the world purely on technique. The reason he does well is because he somehow has a great knack to find gaps whenever he is in control. has a pretty high strike rate especially in Tests.

[jaybro]

Look at Sakib yesterday he knocked 3-4 drives through slips or gully but was lucky they didn’t go to a fielder

Lol Shakib does that almost EVERY innings. No one believes me when I say he is one of the worst batters in the world purely on technique. The reason he does well is because he somehow has a great knack to find gaps whenever he is in control. has a pretty high strike rate especially in Tests.

Doesn't matter how often he does it my point is still valid -

Shakib was lucky he edged 3-4 deliveries and survived

Ervine has been caught edging 3 times in a row

I remember a few years back Ponting was in a real bad patch against Pakistan Asif was all over him like a cheap suit, in the final Test at Hobart Ponting hooked Asif and was dropped in the deep on zero and went on to score 200 odd.

[TapsC]

I think there is a difference between a technical flaw and a bad patch. He has been in a bad patch for a very very long time now if that's what you want to call it. It didn't start in Bangladesh.

I'm looking back over the last year and I can think of 2 magnificent innings that he played in Sri Lanka. Nothing else. Guys like Hami were dropped for far less.

Look I mean Tamim passed 6000 runs yesterday and I looked around saw that Hami is about 1000 runs behind him yet he has played like 5 games more. Taylor would need to score 6 centuries in a row to catch him. This made me really sad because all these guys were about on the same level at the beginning of the decade if not better. The amount of games is the same so we cant use lack of experience as an excuse. For me it's us being too lenient on players when they are not performing up to scratch.

For too long these guys have had an easy ride. These guys are paid to eat and sleep and breathe cricket and were on better base salaries than their counterparts from Bangladesh for a long time. I am almost certain that in the last 2 years Ervine has been dismissed like that more than half the time. He knows this problem exists but still does it over and over again. In most countries he would have been dropped.

To me the biggest issue we have here is that Streak and Taibu got overconfident and left not even 1 batting option on the bench. Murray has barely played any games. That's the definition of complacency. We can get to a situation where we can absolutely kill Ervines career by forcing to play in such scenarios and not changing anything. Not even the batting order.

There is nothing wrong with Ervine being told to take a 2 day break then spend the 2 weeks until after the first 2 t20s in Sharjah in the nets playing 2000 balls in that exact area and Lance finding a solution in terms of what he can do to combat that problem. In that time a young gun like Tari or maybe a big slogger like Zhuwao could have been given a real test out there to see of he has what it takes. Isn't we are trying to find the best solutions? after 20000 balls of practice put him back in the team for the Sharjah ODIs. The problem might be gone or temporarily dealt with.

You don't think the West Indies Afghanistan and Ireland are watching him make the same mistake over and over again? His highlights package over the last year or so has plenty of those dismissals..You can't send him into the deep end with that flaw. What if he gets a golden duck in a must win super 6 game in that same manner? Will the fans ever forgive him? Will he forgive himself? He might be averaging just above 30 by then simply because we cant actually help him by dropping him for 2 weeks. He might never recover.

Like I said at the beginning of the tour Streak and Taibu have gambled with our cricketing lives here. This could honestly be the beginning of the end for them if we them go on to not qualify. If someone like AC could point out that we needed to bring as many left handers as possible to face Bangladesh but you leave Williams at home probably because of a disciplinary issue and Zhuwao at home yet he is in good form domestically. All so that Murray can keep for 1 innings? Come on! That is absolutely ridiculous.Burl is also a leftie... what on earth were they thinking? now one of our star batsmen is struggling and we have nobody to give him a much needed break. His confidence is absolutely crushed at this point. Nobody is more disappointed than him

[Zero76]

I didn't support dropping Hami them, and I don't support dropping Ervine now. It is clear he is going through a lean patch, but he has done enough in the past to warrant keeping faith in him. As far as proven quality batsman go we have only BT, Hamilton, Ervine and possibly Raza. We can't afford to toss that sort of talent away.

[Googly]

Tari, Burl and Williams are the standby batsmen I assume?
I think Malcolm is on borrowed time, he brings a bowling option which has kept him in the mix, certainly for this Bangladesh series.
None of the ZC boys have divulged why Williams was excluded from this tour and it remains to be seen whether he will get a call up going forward. It’s disappointing to have Williams at odds with management, I wonder how he gets along with the team? I would guess Cremer, as captain, would have to go along with him being dropped?We play so few games that an exclusion is doubly harsh, although we have experienced guys, if the cricket is irregular it partly negates the years of experience they do have.
In my opinion Ryan and Tari are possible replacements for Malcolm, I haven’t seen Burl bowl, but he does and Malcolm’s ability with the ball has been partly negated by him having to change his action. PJ is a standby keeper and that’s a plus in his column.
I don’t think it’s an option to consider dropping Ervine, he just needs to work on a couple of technical issues and is obviously very low on confidence. International cricket is evil and once the opposition identify a flaw you have to fix it x2 or the issue compounds and is career threatening.

[Zero76]

I wouldn't think Cremer and Williams have fallen out, considering their wives still seem to be close friends. Who knows?

[jaybro]

I think there is a difference between a technical flaw and a bad patch. He has been in a bad patch for a very very long time now if that's what you want to call it. It didn't start in Bangladesh.

I'm looking back over the last year and I can think of 2 magnificent innings that he played in Sri Lanka. Nothing else. Guys like Hami were dropped for far less.

Look I mean Tamim passed 6000 runs yesterday and I looked around saw that Hami is about 1000 runs behind him yet he has played like 5 games more. Taylor would need to score 6 centuries in a row to catch him. This made me really sad because all these guys were about on the same level at the beginning of the decade if not better. The amount of games is the same so we cant use lack of experience as an excuse. For me it's us being too lenient on players when they are not performing up to scratch.

For too long these guys have had an easy ride. These guys are paid to eat and sleep and breathe cricket and were on better base salaries than their counterparts from Bangladesh for a long time. I am almost certain that in the last 2 years Ervine has been dismissed like that more than half the time. He knows this problem exists but still does it over and over again. In most countries he would have been dropped.

To me the biggest issue we have here is that Streak and Taibu got overconfident and left not even 1 batting option on the bench. Murray has barely played any games. That's the definition of complacency. We can get to a situation where we can absolutely kill Ervines career by forcing to play in such scenarios and not changing anything. Not even the batting order.

There is nothing wrong with Ervine being told to take a 2 day break then spend the 2 weeks until after the first 2 t20s in Sharjah in the nets playing 2000 balls in that exact area and Lance finding a solution in terms of what he can do to combat that problem. In that time a young gun like Tari or maybe a big slogger like Zhuwao could have been given a real test out there to see of he has what it takes. Isn't we are trying to find the best solutions? after 20000 balls of practice put him back in the team for the Sharjah ODIs. The problem might be gone or temporarily dealt with.

You don't think the West Indies Afghanistan and Ireland are watching him make the same mistake over and over again? His highlights package over the last year or so has plenty of those dismissals..You can't send him into the deep end with that flaw. What if he gets a golden duck in a must win super 6 game in that same manner? Will the fans ever forgive him? Will he forgive himself? He might be averaging just above 30 by then simply because we cant actually help him by dropping him for 2 weeks. He might never recover.

Like I said at the beginning of the tour Streak and Taibu have gambled with our cricketing lives here. This could honestly be the beginning of the end for them if we them go on to not qualify. If someone like AC could point out that we needed to bring as many left handers as possible to face Bangladesh but you leave Williams at home probably because of a disciplinary issue and Zhuwao at home yet he is in good form domestically. All so that Murray can keep for 1 innings? Come on! That is absolutely ridiculous.Burl is also a leftie... what on earth were they thinking? now one of our star batsmen is struggling and we have nobody to give him a much needed break. His confidence is absolutely crushed at this point. Nobody is more disappointed than him

TapsC you talk a lot of sense but do a lot of whinging without throwing up any real solutions apart from Zhuwao who despite being a forum favourite is by all accounts a slogger of club cricket level.

If guys like Ervine, Hami & Mire got found out then what chance would Cephas of had?

We’re 5 games away from the qualifiers do you really think we should be using these games to see if the 10% chance Zhuwao can defy his List A average of 20 into an ODI average of 30 plus? Or should we continue to give Ervine or Mire or Moor ‘more time’ in the middle so once the qualifiers come around they’re match ready?

The time for experiments is over IMO we’ve got the best guys ready to go we need to back them and give them the best possible chance to perform

[Googly]

Well where does Williams fit in? You can’t ignore him. I also think Tari and Burl are knocking on the door. Waller, PJ and Mire have to be on thin ice. It’s a conundrum