[Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs South Africa, 2nd ODI

[zimbos_05]

You know who the selectors will drop Chigs for - possibly even as early as the BD tour. Chamu Chibabha since he has a lot of experience.

Why is experience the sole precursor for everyones selections?

Experience got us all out for 78. Experience got the opposition from 101/7 to 198. Experience struggles to beat Afghanistan, Holland, Ireland. Experience counts for a lot when they actually do something with it, our guys are merely just collecting caps.

[eugene]

This is true. We may have the most experienced ODI team out there. We have multiple guys with 100s of ODIs under their belt.

[jaybro]

Although I am all for giving some of these young guys a go let’s not kid ourselves, if BT couldn’t survive on that pitch against attack no player in Zimbabwe would have.

Remember only a few months back a Zim side without the experienced guys were bowled out cheaply four times on the flattest is tracks in Bulawayo.

The problems don’t lie within the playing group and can’t be fixed by swapping player A for player B, the issue is the lack of quality match practice and the whole system that can’t produce quality batsman.

We have the lowest quality domestic competition and we play the least amount of cricket out of all the full members. The problems start back home and can’t be fixed in this series.

[CrimsonAvenger]

I didn't watch much of the action. Should we have complained about the state of the pitch to the umpires when Ervine and Taylor were getting those brutes and grubbers? Was it really that bad? I was following on Cricinfo and went to sleep as soon as Ervine got out, thinking that this would be another of those so near yet so far cases, but secretly hoped that our most experienced batting duo / a resurgent Chigs would pull it off and I would see a happy scorecard in the morning. And then to see that carnage in the morning...

[zimbos_05]

Although I am all for giving some of these young guys a go let’s not kid ourselves, if BT couldn’t survive on that pitch against attack no player in Zimbabwe would have.

Remember only a few months back a Zim side without the experienced guys were bowled out cheaply four times on the flattest is tracks in Bulawayo.

The problems don’t lie within the playing group and can’t be fixed by swapping player A for player B, the issue is the lack of quality match practice and the whole system that can’t produce quality batsman.

We have the lowest quality domestic competition and we play the least amount of cricket out of all the full members. The problems start back home and can’t be fixed in this series.

You have to start somewhere. I'm not advocating for a complete overhaul, but guys like Murray should be playing over Chigs. Tari and Kamu should be getting a look in. Burl, Mumba etc should be there or there abouts, training with the first team. There are examples all over the world of youngsters given starts, not really doing well, but being persisted with, coached, looked after, training hard, and coming back stronger and some even became captains of their national sides. SA have a depleted team, but there is method to it. It is not necessarily working for them as they would like, but they don't cast the youngsters to the side and just not bother. They take them back to the nets and work on their games. They go on A tours, and are training with the first team.

Now I know we don't really have the money to be sending an A team on tours all over and our domestic scene is depleted and so on, but are we going to just keep sitting back and make excuses, or are we actually going to do something about it. At what point do the players and everyone else stop waiting for the board to do things, and start doing things themselves. Arranging inter team games, extra net sessions etc are all easily possible. All of our players have connections somewhere. Put proposals out to county sides and Aus state sides to come on pre season tours to Zim. Get coaches to come out for camps and clinics. Zim cannot keep looking for empathy and cursing their fortunes, at some point, you make your own.

[TapsC]

Although I am all for giving some of these young guys a go let’s not kid ourselves, if BT couldn’t survive on that pitch against attack no player in Zimbabwe would have.

Remember only a few months back a Zim side without the experienced guys were bowled out cheaply four times on the flattest is tracks in Bulawayo.

The problems don’t lie within the playing group and can’t be fixed by swapping player A for player B, the issue is the lack of quality match practice and the whole system that can’t produce quality batsman.

We have the lowest quality domestic competition and we play the least amount of cricket out of all the full members. The problems start back home and can’t be fixed in this series.

This is true. I feel like SA are just a much better side. If they struggled on that pitch we genuinely had no chance. Thats just the bitter truth we are not accepting. If they had scored 350 we would have scored 230. There is just a gap in class.

I am a fan of Tari but I dont think he would have lasted long in those conditions considering his height and lack of patience at this stage of his career. Kamunhukamwe struggled against district sides. You really think he would last against Steyn that fired up?

There are 2 issues that I am seeing with the batsmen. Mire,BT,Ervine and Williams look rusty even though they shouldnt be. They didnt play the Pakistan ODIs. Now I am not blaming lack of gametime. Its more of the Pakistan bowlers being really good so they prepare you. If you look at our players this year, they have played the most ODI cricket in the whole world.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ;type=year

On the list of most ODI runs this year you see that Hami has played the most ODIs at 22. This is why I think he is top scoring in these appalling chases.

They are not concentrating hard enough. Ervine really did try but he gave it away. The second problem is that we have 2 unreliable passengers. Elton is obviously unreliable. I have also personally had enough of PJ. Its been like 40 games now. I dont think he will come good. He is another Waller. He should he dropped from the limited overs teams until he improves on the domestic circuit. He doesnt even score runs there. How is he expected to do it on the big stage?

Mire has also really struggled in ODIs this year. He needs a competitor to push him. We are all talking about PJ and Elton being dropped but what about Mire? What has he done this whole year in ODIs? His average is fast approaching 20. His foot movement is terrible.

[TapsC]

As for organizing inter-team games etc. I heard that the boys worked extremely hard over the last 2 months. They really did. Training almost every day with games on the weekends.

[zimbos_05]

I can see where you are coming from, but what other solutions do we have other than to blood the youngsters? The problem with blooding them is that it has to be done at first team level. Our admin messed up everything below that. No domestic, no A side, no grassroots.

We need to blood them and coach them and train them properly. Stick by them and coach them at a top level, not drop them after one series and leave them in the abyss. We selected 4 different sides for two tours. How is that possible. There is no continuity to the teams and the squads. No clear indication of what is expected and hoped to be achieved. It's just chop and change for the sake of it.

If the guys are training as hard as you say, then why are they so terrible after all this time. Close to 200 games for a lot of them and still producing that tripe. We can change coach as much as we want, which we have done, and the results seem to be the same. If anything, based on ZC history, Rajput should be out of a job right now.

What are the other solutions? We wont get matches because our admin can't afford them, and we teams will keep sending 2nd rate sides to us because they know they can roll us with such sides too.

Bemoaning the same things will not get us anywhere.

[jaybro]

I’ll give you the tip Zimbo_05 throwing young kids to the wolves ain’t the solution.

There are many things I think need to be done to fix the side, what is possible is something I’m not sure about.

Looking at the current crop of players ( not just from this squad ) they’re set in their ways so there is only so much coaching you can do that will make a difference. What they need is to be playing regularly and against quality opposition.

I might start another thread about what I think needs to be done but for now I’ll leave it there otherwise we will get totally off topic. As I said in an earlier post if the pitch is nice and flat ( like an ODI pitch should be ) I’d play Kamunhukamwe & Murray but they would have got nothing out of playing last night.

[zimbos_05]

I’ll give you the tip Zimbo_05 throwing young kids to the wolves ain’t the solution.

If they can't play against second string sides, then we should just end it after the current crop retire.