[Match Thread] Zim v NL: ODI 2

[CrimsonAvenger]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/190 ... nd-nl-2019

Better luck this time? Lot of the seniors would have to put their hands up.

A practice match before the series would have probably helped in acclimatizing but what's done is done.

[Jemisi]

Need to get things right tonight. At least splitting this like we did in Scotland last time.

[CrimsonAvenger]

Looks like time for Hamilton to rethink on what legacy he wants to leave behind. Does he want people to talk about him by grouping him with the likes of Chigumbura and Utseya? Hopefully not.

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" holds here too. Personally, at least now, I think he is done.

[brmtaylor.com admin]

I don't think HM will ever be in that category, his legacy is secure - he scored a century on debut as a teenager, scored a number of Test hundreds at home and away. A pretty reasonable ODI record to go with it. The only knock on him is he's never gone big against a top tier opponent, but I think his century in that comeback Test against Bangladesh is about as influential as they come.

Maybe if we start playing Tests more than once every two years he could be phased out of the ODI team and end his career as a Test specialist, but while he's averaging around 30 I'm happy for him to continue on.

Chigumbura will probably be remembered as an unfulfilled talent, I suppose. When he could bowl quick and hit hard then he could have gone on to be anything, but when he stopped being a threat with the ball his inconsistency with the bat just made him, well, an inconsistent middle order batsman.

Utseya will probably be remembered for the craziness at the end more than anything. Being selected due to politics and becoming a dibbly-dobbly seam up bowler? Sad end to what was a decent career as an economical spinner, albeit not a prolific wicket taker. With that said, he took an international hat trick (against a top tier opponent) and won a match off his own bat (against an even better opponent) in successive matches. Regardless of the weirdness at the end and the frustration behind him going wicketless so often, he should be remembered as a good cricketer and I'd argue that he was probably a bit better than his career stats suggest.

[sloandog]

Utseya was starting to seriously peak in 2014 when he was called. He took wickets against SA and Oz and was scoring some handy runs, and looked to be our best ODI spin bowler while Cremer was away from the game. I mean the guy is a snake, and the fact he threw Taylor, Campbell and the selection panel under the race bus I think he'll always be remembered as a snake.

In other news, Taylor scores his second consecutive 50, and Craig Ervine also brings up a slow and steady half century.

[zimbos_05]

Hammy is finished and he is slowly starting to ruin his reputation for me.

I always held him in fairly high regard, but not quite. When he never stood with the players through all those boycotts and calls for change, he lost some of my respect. However, he was never blatant and he always got on well with all the guys and was very approachable.

Now he is just sticking around when not necessary. Taking up a spot for a youngster who should be there and being blooded. He can easily move in to a coaching or leadership role, particularly in the youth set up.

Our guys are just giving Holland too much respect though too. 210 after 40 hours is quite disappointing. We really need to be upping our game and believing in ourselves more. We play with way too much fear.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Utseya was starting to seriously peak in 2014 when he was called. He took wickets against SA and Oz and was scoring some handy runs, and looked to be our best ODI spin bowler while Cremer was away from the game.

He only started to fire once he realised what he could do if he bent his arm further. He said it himself. No different from taking PEDs really. He will always be a scumbag.

Back to Hammy, for his own sake, he better be thinking of a plan post retirement. Didn’t he take time from the game to do a law degree? If so he should start brushing up / pays better too.

It must be a disturbing thought for him that 17/18 year old Hammy is a better player (or equal at worst) than thirty something Hammy.
To not improve in 19 years? Mindfuck.

His job is there for him for at least 12 more months, but I hope he doesn’t push it and become an embarrassment.

[brmtaylor.com admin]

The only way HM can do irreparable damage to his reputation if he sticks around for so long, and performs so badly, that his Test and ODI averages drop to around the Matsikenyeri level.

If he ends it all averaging 27/28/29 or whatever then no big deal. Grant Flower's Test average was 29.

As for Utseya being a chucker, well I thought he was a bit stiff to be honest. Murali went his entire career bowling with his arm at a right angle, so Utseya should never have even been called IMO. He was dead unlucky to get done as he was peaking too, as sloandog said.

[kngow]

290/6. Good batting from Taylor as usual. Nice to see Raza and Ervine get up to speed especially the former. Hammy yet again playing badly, Moor needs to get on with it same for Williams. The success secret for teams like England and India is consistency which simply does not exist except for Brendan Taylor and perhaps Raza to an extent. Mire needs to push on from this, he's a one dimensional player. Burl and Kamunhukamwe need to get in the XI asap in my opinion. Well, at least Ndlovu is getting a shot. We need to shoot Netherlands down if we want to keep our respect. 250 below is what we should aim to get em out for. The pacers need to be accurate and hopefully Ndlovu can get a wicket or two. Let's go Zimbos.

[ZIMDOGGY]

The only way HM can do irreparable damage to his reputation if he sticks around for so long, and performs so badly, that his Test and ODI averages drop to around the Matsikenyeri level.

If he ends it all averaging 27/28/29 or whatever then no big deal. Grant Flower's Test average was 29.

As for Utseya being a chucker, well I thought he was a bit stiff to be honest. Murali went his entire career bowling with his arm at a right angle, so Utseya should never have even been called IMO. He was dead unlucky to get done as he was peaking too, as sloandog said.

Mistakes don’t justify mistakes.
Because Murali got away with cheating and/or an unfair advantage for so long, doesn’t justify Prosper doing it. Murali just cried about his medical condition and for some reason it was accepted at the time. Anyone who releases the ball with a bent arm can get their wrist in a certain direction that releases more revs on an off break ball. ICC toughened up 5 years ago and that’s why we saw the cleanup that occurred, occur.
Imagine if Price, with his accuracy, could bend his arm
and rev the ball, he would be better than Graeme Swann! And then someone here on ZCF will be arguing that he was better than Swanny because of it, by this whole logic.

As for Hammy. Averaging 28 today isn’t like Flower averaging 29 in the day. Hammy plays teams like the Netherlands and Afg. Flower played top 6 teams on the constant basis. You know this cuz. Zimdoggy.