2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

[encore]

As far as Hami is concered, I had this conversation before. At one point Hami was dropped(unfairly). Also removed from captaincy(inexplicably since no games). At that point a lot of senior players were struggling in one format or another but never rested/dropped. I said at some point Hami will return. How then will you manage him if he fails again? Things have evolved just as I said. With the likes of Burl, Moor and Malcolm flopping but constantly picked, plus a rotation of Regis, Chamu etc things got tense. Even Elton was dropped, and Musakanda harshly as well. It was tough for the selctors to touch the white players because the like of Coltart were making too many policitcal noises, and you guys on this forum as well(yes you count because I've read some ZIM journalists use your comments and gauge sentiments here).

So for the selectors it became tough because on the one hand they completely cut off a Vusi(who still went on to do well in Afg I think, better than youngster Burl), and now a senior player like Hami was not performing. How do they drop him after carrying Sean/Raza/Craig at various times. If they did drop him again it meant cut him off like Vusi. Except, few of the others young/old were performing. Even Mire - who had been a matchwinner a few times - was dropped a number of times yet other decent performers who never really won meaningful matches were never dropped even when they had the worst of form(if Mire writes a book he'll be sure to mention that unfairness I guarantee you). A hugely talented and breathtaking telant like Musakanda crowded out ad not persisted with yet others were.

Anyway Hami should have been dropped.No question. But the same question that I asked then applies now. How do you drop him, on what basis? If you pick a Raza in T20s because he sometimes does well in ODIs, even though his T20 record is pathetic, how do you drop a Hami(or Elton) ODIs, when they are doing ok in Tests and T20s? Yet you keep a Moor who does poorly in T20s and ODIs, and still pick a Malcolm in T20s only. Philander plays Tests only for SA, but you dropped Panyangara(who is excellent in T20s) because you feel he's not ok for the format you play most so must go from Tests too.

I tell you, Zimbabwe Cricket is and has been a mess for a long time, and I feel the fans themselves don't realise that even they are a mess despite accusing and criticising administrators, selectors and coaches of the same.

I know many will strongly disagree but I believe I've been the fairest commentator on cricket in Zimbabwe. Why? Becasue we face the same challenges in SA, so how can our methods which are more successful, be considered a failure for ZIM?

Sean Williams will never win ZIM a meaningful match. So why pick him? Jarvis is not an international class seamer. So why is he even being invested in when Ngarava and Mumba should be? Brendan Taylor is not a keeper. So why on earth does he even have the gloves. The Mutombodzis, Razas, Williams etc will never evolve into T20 international spinners - so why wast overs on them instead of picking a proper spinner(Chisoro) and batsman(Musakanda/Zhuwao/Elton). Burl will never be an allrounder, why even call him that? People here even talk about his bowling - heck we may as well discuss Markram and Reeza as spinners adn allrounders too! Not even Bangladesh use Mahmudullah much and he's a much better spinner. It's a complete joke. Zimbabwe! I find this sad because people from ENG and AUS encourage the same madness they would never tolerate for their countries, "as long as a Moor or Burl is in the squad ahead of Maruma" they'll say.

[Jemisi]

Ok, so that post really had some laughs in it.

[zimbos_05]

You're wasting your time Kriterion. Even when provided with facts and reason, it does not compute.

[Googly]

SA cricket is in rapid decline and you keep fiddling while Rome burns.

[Black Mamba]

SA cricket is in rapid decline and you keep fiddling while Rome burns.

Not in a decline phase, CSA should build a measure to shut the door for Kolpak Deals.

[Kriterion_BD]

Check the annals of the forum. I've been through these stats-arguments before(with you even), and showed that ZIM have almost always won whenever Hami, Elton, Chatara, Panyangara and Utseya have done very well. You very seldom see ZIM losing when those guys have done well.

OK. My question is, when have Hami, Elton, Chatara, Panyangara, or Utseya done well and delivered a win against a top side? Lets assume a top side is the traditional 8 powers, plus Bangladesh in ODIs post 2015, Bangladesh in Tests post 2016, and Afghanistan in T20s post 2017.

I think they have won 1 Test vs PAK, 1 vs BD, 1 T20 vs Afghanistan, 1 ODI vs Australia, and a couple of T20s vs India's A team (still a very strong outfit, so we can include that as top opposition). So they have maybe 5-10 wins out of aprox 200-300 matches. Thats hardly noteworthy. Taylor, Jarvis, and Williams have done more from less.

That other guy here mocked me for saying ZIM generally do well when the openers do well. He ignored the import of that statement. There was a time when Taylor was the only one turning up most of the time, Craig, Sean, Malcolm and Regis/Mutumbami failing, and Elton left with too much to do in the end. So generally each time Hami and Vusi did well, Taylor's efforts amounted to something as a result in some of those wins(Elton also singlehandedly stood tall against top class attacks from SA & IND in ODI losses - should have one that IND one if I recall).

I'm not putting the W/L ratio down to two guys. That wouldn't make sense in sports. My simple argument was lots of money was paid for these two guys, and most of the forum's "favourites" have played most games (i.e. reverse quotas). And yet, the team has regressed embarassingly. i'm sorry but there's no sugar coating that one. Instead you should be trying to answer why Zimbabwe have gone backwards since Taylor and Jarvis returned, and selection has largely been "favourable". Especially considering the fact that the opposition has been weaker in that time.

This is an adequate point. Zimbabwe not only lost to UAE and failed to qualify for the WC, but also got swept 5-0 on a tour of Europe this year. The Tri series in Singapore will give an indication as to whether ZIM would have struggled to make the T20 WC next year. You're absolutely right here. But I want to caution you that few, if anyone, is arguing that BT or KJ are world class...they are just saying that they are Zimbawe's best (indisputably so really), and worth every penny spent on them.

[Googly]

SA cricket is in rapid decline and you keep fiddling while Rome burns.

Not in a decline phase, CSA should build a measure to shut the door for Kolpak Deals.

If you read anything you’d notice that Brexit (Google it) means CSA won’t have to try and prevent someone living and working where they choose and where they’re able to, it’s being done for them. Assuming it was within CSA’s power to do so it would be to what end? Most good white players are being overlooked for franchise let alone national duty. What role would you like the whites to play?

[Googly]

What everyone is conveniently forgetting in this BT/KJ saga is that they negotiated themselves a good deal and their package has been made public by the very people that agreed to it.
No one is blaming those twats, who incidentally negotiated themselves an ever better one.
The neat trick that gets replayed is that it’s the white guys’ fault The upshot of all of this is going to be a delay in the issuing of central contracts, if any are given at all, it will be blamed on BT/KJ having eaten all the money and now there will be a surplus that won’t be used for the right purposes and will vanish and once again attention will be diverted from the culprits. It’s not very clever, but it’s smart enough that 99% will swallow it.

[Googly]

SA cricket is in rapid decline and you keep fiddling while Rome burns.

Not in a decline phase, CSA should build a measure to shut the door for Kolpak Deals.

If you don’t think SA cricket is pretty much a spent force that will never challenge for a top berth then you’re sadly mistaken. They’re a mid table side from henceforth. No point in arguing it, just watch. What they’re doing is copying us in most things and hoping for a different outcome. There’s a name for that.

[zimbos_05]

OK. My question is, when have Hami, Elton, Chatara, Panyangara, or Utseya done well and delivered a win against a top side? Lets assume a top side is the traditional 8 powers, plus Bangladesh in ODIs post 2015, Bangladesh in Tests post 2016, and Afghanistan in T20s post 2017.

To be fair, Elton and Utseya were the batsmen who took us home in that win against Australia in Harare. What encore will ignore is that Williams bowled 10 overs and took 2 for 21 in the same match. He will also ignore that Taylor took us to a win over the same team in the first T20 world cup, or that Taylor scored 138 and Williams 50 against an Indian side in a world cup. It was the others who failed to score (Ervine scored 28 and Raza 27, Hammy 2, Chamu 7, Mire 9) that meant we fell just short of 300 and potentially could have won that game (India won with 8 balls to spare)

So in all of his arguments, it is merely picking and choosing to serve a point, but when refuted, he ignores it. It's a very wonderful tactic.

Elton, Hammy, Utseya etc have all had their moments. The problem is that Elton and Hammy are past it now. He argues for youth to be brought in as long as is does not come at the expense of these players. It is looking out for own interests as opposed to a collective best interest.

When also told that no one is against Chatara, it is ignored. Saying Zim have almost always won when they have performed, is like saying,
"that player almost always scores a century when he scores a century"

Playing well means you win. Simple. Zim does not have a collective of 11 who constantly do that. We have about 5 or 6, and when those 5 or 6 have one bad game, they get hounded on as if they are the problem, and the race card is played.