1st T20I | Zimbabwe V/s Bangladesh| Harare

[Kriterion_BD]

I agree with Rajkumar here Kriterion, BD is not really miles apart from Zim and Afg in test hey. Honestly, with key players missing in that middle order for Zim in the tests BD were always going to be favorites and to be pushed that far by an inexperienced Zim side shows that there isn't much between the teams. BD would win at home and I am sure a full strength Zim test team would beat a full strength BD team in Zim conditions also.

A fair tier structure would be 8-4. With the team finishing 8th in the WTC being relegated to the non-WTC and the top team in the non-WTC getting promoted to the WTC.

I believe the huge cricket following in BD and some decent shorter format performances over the years gave BD the benefit of the doubt in being included in the WTC.

A competitive "Division 2" of Zim, BD, Afg, Ire with winner getting promoted to the "Division 1" would really be a good thing for test cricket, especially to keep it alive in lower ranked teams. ICC cannot keep on excluding teams in a sport that is played by very very few countries already professionally world wide.

Here's the thing though, what exactly are "ZIM" conditions? For the past several years they seem to be quite docile. Even in the 2013 BD-ZIM series, I thought the conditions were decent, with a sporting track, where skillful seamers got movement (Robiul, Jarvis, Meth were all getting something from the pitch and Meth was actually swinging it a yard). But both Tests had 375+ first innings totals, indicating that if you applied yourself, you could get some runs.

Bangladesh conditions are easy because there are only 2 options (slow flat deck where 5-600 is a par score even on day 5 or turning wicket where the ball turns sharply from the first session of play). Bangladesh have beaten Zimbabwe 5-1 in those conditions since 2011.

I think we played a Test in stereotypical ZIM conditions where the ball swings and seams for the first hour before the pitch flattens out. Its not for lack of effort from the groundstaff, HSC pitch had a very healthy tinge of green on it...its just the pitch dies once the shine wears off on Day 1. Since 2011, Bangladesh are 2-2 in these conditions, with the trend being they've won the last 2 (the first of which had a full strength ZIM with Jarvis and Cremer).

If there was a hypothetical 3 match series at Harare between both teams a full strength, I'd think Bangladesh would draw it 1-1 at the very worst and my "official" prediction would be 2-1 or 2-0 with a draw to Bangladesh, most likely 2-1. I think thats a reasonable prediction. I think it would be either 3-0 or 2-0 in Bangladesh, most likely 3-0.

[secretzimbo]

I’d say it’s more the fact that Zimbabwe has about 400 players throughout all the age groups, schools and clubs combined whereas kids from the curry areas are born with a bat and ball in their hand.

More like double that number. At least. But I get your point and agree.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Do some research before speaking rubbish. Afghan won test series in Bangladesh in 2019. Zimbabwe won 4 test series against Bangladesh. Non WTC countries have neck to neck test records against Bangladesh except Irish team, no matter when WTC started or not. Winning a test series for Non WTC team against a WTC team matters alot.Bangladesh is in WTC due to grace of ICC.Bad luck for Afghans, Zim not getting it there despite having performances quite similar to Bangladesh in Test

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/afg ... -scorecard

A series implies MULTIPLE Test matches. AFG won a one off Test in 2019. Australia also won 1 out 1 Tests against India, bowling them out for 36 all out in the last SERIES, but guess who came back to win?

I'm talking about RECENT times. Andy Flower and Heath Streak no longer play for ZIM, just like Ashraful and Bashar no longer play for Bangladesh. Since 2011, Bangladesh have won 7-3 vs ZIM. You like stats, so thats 70% winning percentage which is very high for Test cricket.

How did Afghanistan have "performances quite similar to BD in Test" before they even played their first Test? WTC was finalized in 2017 and Afghanistan played their first Test in 2018. Sounds like you need to "do some research before speaking rubbish".

Team playing test cricket for 20 years getting defeated by a baby team who was 2 yrs old played only one off test against India, is of huge surprise. One off, 2off series is just a rubbish excuse after getting smashed in their own backyard. A non WTC team wining series against WTC side that too at their home raises big question about their participation in global event


On comparision on both teams at prime, Zim under Flower, Streak Era has won and drawn more test matches then Bangladesh in Shakib Mushfiq's era.

Zim under Streak Flower era has won test series against full strength Pakistan, best at time, that too in their backyard,beat india, drawn against quality English, Kiwis, Sri Lankan & Proteas side, all these were of high quality at that era, moreover they had overseas wins against best teams.
whereas Bangladesh under Mushfiq Shakib has won nothing against the best sides except few series wins against struggling Windies side and one or two beats and pieces win over Aus & England at home, there is no test series win for Bangladesh against a quality side either at home or away.

When it comes to draw, Zim under Streak Flower era has drawn 24 of their test against top teams wheareas Bangladesh has got draw only 12 test under Shakib Musfiq era

Bangladesh won few test over England & Australia, similarly Zim won against Pakistan.Both these two teams has won nothing in overseas against top side.There is no heaven & hell difference between the two, moreover WTC was finalized in 2017 and started in 2019, in 2 years some development happened for lower ranked side, WTC set up neither based on current performances not past performances,
Bangladesh played 7 matches in WTC won nothing drawn 1 in 2019-2021 phase finish at the bottom, even Zim, Afghan or Irish teams can finish last in the table with similar stats of win / loss /draw like Bangladesh, if they are picked in WTC, therefore ICC picking Bangladesh in WTC is just because of finance, gate money from audience and popularity whereas Zim & Afghans are not picked because of financial problem and lack of popularity of the game

[slcricfan1]

That is what we are. But if we win the second division, we earn the right to play against the big boys, try and challenge teams number 6 and 7 in the top division to stay up. It will be like supporting Brighton or Norwich in the EPL, you just know you are fighting to stay up, which will be cool for fans , esp the die hard ones like ourselves here

the thing is this zimbabwean team can go head to head with the upper teams. Literally the only thing holding most lower teams back is lack of game time. I dont udnerstand why they just cant add Zimbabwe, Afg and Ireland to the WTC because they ceratinly can push teams at full strength

I’d say it’s more the fact that Zimbabwe has about 400 players throughout all the age groups, schools and clubs combined whereas kids from the curry areas are born with a bat and ball in their hand.

thats true but you guys can push probably every curry nation besides India at your peak.

[slcricfan1]

That is what we are. But if we win the second division, we earn the right to play against the big boys, try and challenge teams number 6 and 7 in the top division to stay up. It will be like supporting Brighton or Norwich in the EPL, you just know you are fighting to stay up, which will be cool for fans , esp the die hard ones like ourselves here

the thing is this zimbabwean team can go head to head with the upper teams. Literally the only thing holding most lower teams back is lack of game time. I dont udnerstand why they just cant add Zimbabwe, Afg and Ireland to the WTC because they ceratinly can push teams at full strength

I’d say it’s more the fact that Zimbabwe has about 400 players throughout all the age groups, schools and clubs combined whereas kids from the curry areas are born with a bat and ball in their hand.

Like Zimbabwe have beaten Pak and Bd this year. Theyve beaten Sri lanka a couple years ago. Same with Afghanistan. I know they arent series wins but it shows they arent leagues ahead. Look at how much cricket all these teams play though. I reckon its the biggest setback for Zimbabwe cricket.

[slcricfan1]

Not the biggest actually but certainly up there

[Kriterion_BD]

Team playing test cricket for 20 years getting defeated by a baby team who was 2 yrs old played only one off test against India, is of huge surprise. One off, 2off series is just a rubbish excuse after getting smashed in their own backyard. A non WTC team wining series against WTC side that too at their home raises big question about their participation in global event


On comparision on both teams at prime, Zim under Flower, Streak Era has won and drawn more test matches then Bangladesh in Shakib Mushfiq's era.

Zim under Streak Flower era has won test series against full strength Pakistan, best at time, that too in their backyard,beat india, drawn against quality English, Kiwis, Sri Lankan & Proteas side, all these were of high quality at that era, moreover they had overseas wins against best teams.
whereas Bangladesh under Mushfiq Shakib has won nothing against the best sides except few series wins against struggling Windies side and one or two beats and pieces win over Aus & England at home, there is no test series win for Bangladesh against a quality side either at home or away.

When it comes to draw, Zim under Streak Flower era has drawn 24 of their test against top teams wheareas Bangladesh has got draw only 12 test under Shakib Musfiq era

Bangladesh won few test over England & Australia, similarly Zim won against Pakistan.Both these two teams has won nothing in overseas against top side.There is no heaven & hell difference between the two, moreover WTC was finalized in 2017 and started in 2019, in 2 years some development happened for lower ranked side, WTC set up neither based on current performances not past performances,
Bangladesh played 7 matches in WTC won nothing drawn 1 in 2019-2021 phase finish at the bottom, even Zim, Afghan or Irish teams can finish last in the table with similar stats of win / loss /draw like Bangladesh, if they are picked in WTC, therefore ICC picking Bangladesh in WTC is just because of finance, gate money from audience and popularity whereas Zim & Afghans are not picked because of financial problem and lack of popularity of the game

One off Tests, don't constitute a series. The fact of the matter is that AFG and IRE haven't beaten any of the established Test sides yet, and until they do, you can't say they are neck and neck with Bangladesh. Because then I can turn around and say that if Bangladesh wins 2-3 away Tests in the next 30 years, they will be "neck and neck" with India who only won 2-3 away Tests in their first 50 years of Test cricket.

The entire decade of the 1990s, India won just 1 away Test and that was in Sri Lanka. Bangladesh achieved the same record in the 2010s with the 2017 win in Colombo. So what India achieved 60 years after playing Tests, Bangladesh achieved in just 20 years. Maybe one day, India will catch up.

It took India 85+ years to develop a pace attack with more than 1 fast bowler. Bangladesh has 65 years to match India's achievement.

Apart from all that you've got your history all wrong. WTC was finalized in June 2017. At that time, Bangladesh had won 2 Tests (vs England and Sri Lanka) apart from wins vs ZIM and WI. Zimbabwe had won 1 Test vs Pakistan in 2013, and Afghanistan and Ireland didn't even have Test status. How will teams without Test status get picked for WTC?

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Team playing test cricket for 20 years getting defeated by a baby team who was 2 yrs old played only one off test against India, is of huge surprise. One off, 2off series is just a rubbish excuse after getting smashed in their own backyard. A non WTC team wining series against WTC side that too at their home raises big question about their participation in global event


On comparision on both teams at prime, Zim under Flower, Streak Era has won and drawn more test matches then Bangladesh in Shakib Mushfiq's era.

Zim under Streak Flower era has won test series against full strength Pakistan, best at time, that too in their backyard,beat india, drawn against quality English, Kiwis, Sri Lankan & Proteas side, all these were of high quality at that era, moreover they had overseas wins against best teams.
whereas Bangladesh under Mushfiq Shakib has won nothing against the best sides except few series wins against struggling Windies side and one or two beats and pieces win over Aus & England at home, there is no test series win for Bangladesh against a quality side either at home or away.

When it comes to draw, Zim under Streak Flower era has drawn 24 of their test against top teams wheareas Bangladesh has got draw only 12 test under Shakib Musfiq era

Bangladesh won few test over England & Australia, similarly Zim won against Pakistan.Both these two teams has won nothing in overseas against top side.There is no heaven & hell difference between the two, moreover WTC was finalized in 2017 and started in 2019, in 2 years some development happened for lower ranked side, WTC set up neither based on current performances not past performances,
Bangladesh played 7 matches in WTC won nothing drawn 1 in 2019-2021 phase finish at the bottom, even Zim, Afghan or Irish teams can finish last in the table with similar stats of win / loss /draw like Bangladesh, if they are picked in WTC, therefore ICC picking Bangladesh in WTC is just because of finance, gate money from audience and popularity whereas Zim & Afghans are not picked because of financial problem and lack of popularity of the game

One off Tests, don't constitute a series. The fact of the matter is that AFG and IRE haven't beaten any of the established Test sides yet, and until they do, you can't say they are neck and neck with Bangladesh. Because then I can turn around and say that if Bangladesh wins 2-3 away Tests in the next 30 years, they will be "neck and neck" with India who only won 2-3 away Tests in their first 50 years of Test cricket.

The entire decade of the 1990s, India won just 1 away Test and that was in Sri Lanka. Bangladesh achieved the same record in the 2010s with the 2017 win in Colombo. So what India achieved 60 years after playing Tests, Bangladesh achieved in just 20 years. Maybe one day, India will catch up.

It took India 85+ years to develop a pace attack with more than 1 fast bowler. Bangladesh has 65 years to match India's achievement.

Apart from all that you've got your history all wrong. WTC was finalized in June 2017. At that time, Bangladesh had won 2 Tests (vs England and Sri Lanka) apart from wins vs ZIM and WI. Zimbabwe had won 1 Test vs Pakistan in 2013, and Afghanistan and Ireland didn't even have Test status. How will teams without Test status get picked for WTC?

Bangladesh in their 20 years of test cricket never moved to top 6 in test ranking. A 20 year experienced test side getting bashed from a new commer that too in the hardest format of the game questions thats team credibility, if a 20 years experienced side is not an established then they would never been established any time either.

India playing the game from 1930 when Bangladesh & Pakistan not even existed, India played 17 years of cricket under colonial rule, where freedom was most important then playing cricket and till 1980 only 5 or 6 nations played the game and all were strong teams, there was no existance of weak teams at that era. Still India won in New Zealand 1968, back to back test series wins against England in England 1971 and against Lyod's Windies, at their den, the giants at that time in 1971 and again against England in England in 1986

Zim & Bangladesh still found each other latee and win games in their initial phases. Though, Zim won against strong teams both at home and away from 1992 to 1999 before BD got status. India drawn 28 away tests from 1990 -2000, whereas BD got white washed on every away series they played, not even a draw, due to problem in Windies cricket they won few there, else more humiliation were there. BD is yet to win a test in ENG, AUS, NZ, SA,PAK, already 21 years now and it looks bleak they will win any game either in 9 years. Neither you have stats to proof nor a good logic to hide humiliation against Afghans Put some cold ice and sleep thinking about matching India. Its because of Mr. Dalmia of BCCI, PCB & SLC BD are fortunate to play test cricket. Kenya have better world cup records then BD due to luck they didnt got tests status whereas with 2 wins in 1999 world cup, BD was offered test status within a year

Well Indian pace attacks won series against full strength England, giant Windies in 1980s.Your Pace attack won how many test matches and series in IND, ENG, AUS, NZ, SA, PAK ? Your claims doesnt match BD team's stats. WTC started in 2019 when Afghans already won a test in an exciting away and Zim won a test in Bangladesh. BD is in WTC only because of money power and popularity. A team whose test ranking has never been within top 7 can play only with ifs & buts not with bat & ball. Its hard luck for Zim missing WTC despite having stats similar to BD. What Windies C team done to them in recent test series puts the debate more further.

[The Robot]

In the forum, Mr Raj i found that you never listen to other views, but so far you are 100% right in this claim that Zimbabwe missing the deserving WTC spot and Bangladesh getting the edge because of money power, sponsorship and popularity, despite of less difference in performance between the two sides.

[The Robot]

Do some research before speaking rubbish. Afghan won test series in Bangladesh in 2019. Zimbabwe won 4 test series against Bangladesh. Non WTC countries have neck to neck test records against Bangladesh except Irish team, no matter when WTC started or not. Winning a test series for Non WTC team against a WTC team matters alot.Bangladesh is in WTC due to grace of ICC.Bad luck for Afghans, Zim not getting it there despite having performances quite similar to Bangladesh in Test

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/afg ... -scorecard

A series implies MULTIPLE Test matches. AFG won a one off Test in 2019. Australia also won 1 out 1 Tests against India, bowling them out for 36 all out in the last SERIES, but guess who came back to win?

I'm talking about RECENT times. Andy Flower and Heath Streak no longer play for ZIM, just like Ashraful and Bashar no longer play for Bangladesh. Since 2011, Bangladesh have won 7-3 vs ZIM. You like stats, so thats 70% winning percentage which is very high for Test cricket.

How did Afghanistan have "performances quite similar to BD in Test" before they even played their first Test? WTC was finalized in 2017 and Afghanistan played their first Test in 2018. Sounds like you need to "do some research before speaking rubbish".

Team playing test cricket for 20 years getting defeated by a baby team who was 2 yrs old played only one off test against India, is of huge surprise. One off, 2off series is just a rubbish excuse after getting smashed in their own backyard. A non WTC team wining series against WTC side that too at their home raises big question about their participation in global event


On comparision on both teams at prime, Zim under Flower, Streak Era has won and drawn more test matches then Bangladesh in Shakib Mushfiq's era.

Zim under Streak Flower era has won test series against full strength Pakistan, best at time, that too in their backyard,beat india, drawn against quality English, Kiwis, Sri Lankan & Proteas side, all these were of high quality at that era, moreover they had overseas wins against best teams.
whereas Bangladesh under Mushfiq Shakib has won nothing against the best sides except few series wins against struggling Windies side and one or two beats and pieces win over Aus & England at home, there is no test series win for Bangladesh against a quality side either at home or away.

When it comes to draw, Zim under Streak Flower era has drawn 24 of their test against top teams wheareas Bangladesh has got draw only 12 test under Shakib Musfiq era

Bangladesh won few test over England & Australia, similarly Zim won against Pakistan.Both these two teams has won nothing in overseas against top side.There is no heaven & hell difference between the two, moreover WTC was finalized in 2017 and started in 2019, in 2 years some development happened for lower ranked side, WTC set up neither based on current performances not past performances,
Bangladesh played 7 matches in WTC won nothing drawn 1 in 2019-2021 phase finish at the bottom, even Zim, Afghan or Irish teams can finish last in the table with similar stats of win / loss /draw like Bangladesh, if they are picked in WTC, therefore ICC picking Bangladesh in WTC is just because of finance, gate money from audience and popularity whereas Zim & Afghans are not picked because of financial problem and lack of popularity of the game

Totally agree, even Zim can play at WTC and can finish at the bottom like Bangladesh, there should'nt be any partiality, there is no point of not including Zim for bizarre reasons.