Zimbabwe Vs West Indies | 2nd Test | 12-16 Feb 2023 | Bulawayo

[Jemisi]

Yeah, Williams has been hitting an international fifty every fourth innings for ever. His century rate increases later which is the uptick in his average but he has often been in the situation of being the only player making runs since the noughties.

[Kriterion_BD]

This discussion has been done to death numerous times.

The most important thing - can we stop saying 'Little 3'? Yuck!!

How about Next 3?

[zimbos_05]

I guess I am the only one who doubts the talent level of the "Little 3" (Madhevere, Marumani, Shumba).

I define talent as raw skill. Some have it, others dont. These players have raw traits that if coached properly and nurtured well would develop into world class skills.

Unfortunately, that hasn't happened. They haven't kicked on from the promise they have shown and they are still in that raw phase and going nowhere quickly.

I agree with your point about others in their category who have progressed further than they are, and that is what we need to look at. We keep hyping them up, but they keep underwhelming.

[Jemisi]

Wes is in a little bit of a mess and has taken the 'go for your shots and be aggressive' message a bit too liberally. Now his confidence is down after plenty of unnecessary failures. He has shown that he is prepared to mix it up with bowlers. He's made plenty of fifties. He will come good.

[jaybro]

This discussion has been done to death numerous times.

The most important thing - can we stop saying 'Little 3'? Yuck!!

Haha you don’t like it SZ?

[TapsC2]

I don't think anyone doubts their talent. The questions are whether they are up to it or are developing as the promise shows. Wes and Shumba have been around the team for a while now and jus thave not kicked on as they should. All well and good to hype them up, but they are falling behind where they need to be.

I guess I am the only one who doubts the talent level of the "Little 3" (Madhevere, Marumani, Shumba).



Someone made the comparison to BT and Williams. Williams is an exceptional outlier - he was a mediocre batter until about 2016 when he suddenly started scoring hundreds and being consistent. The case with Taylor couldn't be more different than Madhevere. Taylor played much stronger opposition in his first few years than Madhevere has so far. Taylor's average also hovered between 23-27 the entire time, and then from 2006 it started to break upwards towards 30. Madhevere started with an average in the mid to high 30s, and then as opposition started studying him, his average has steadily fallen down even reaching the teens. He now has an ODI average under 20, and 4 fifties from 25 innings. Tector and Zadran have 3 hundreds each!

In conclusion, I am quite bearish on ZIM's prospects once the Big 3 retire and its just Ballance and Kaia holding the batting together. The only hope the Little 3 have to developing their game - given A team cricket is unfeasible - is if they continue to play internationals and learn on the job. The Logan Cup and Pro50 aren't quality enough to get them up to speed for international cricket. But for that to happen, they have to at least average 20-25 so they can keep their spot in the XI without people raising a fuss at the selectors.

A quick search of the top ODI run scorers for Bangladesh in 2022 shows the same names in the top 7. Shakib, Mahmudullah, Mushfiqur and Tamim always pitch up. Anamul Haque and Liton Das are 30. Can you show me the 22 year old batsman in your side who is scoring limited overs centuries like Tector? You making it sound like it's so easy.

When is Afif going to come close again? I'm sure you rate his 72 in South africa highly right? Wes scored 72 in Australia but here you are ruling him out.

Please can you also show me how many times when BT was 22 and below he managed to score half centuries in places like Australia or Pakistan. Against full strength bowling units too. How many times more than Wes did he do that by the age of 22? BT is probably the best limited overs batsman Zimbabwe has ever produced on paper.

Player growth in cricket is not as mathematically predictable as you make it sound

[zimbos_05]

Please can you also show me how many times when BT was 22 and below he managed to score half centuries in places like Australia or Pakistan. Against full strength bowling units too. How many times more than Wes did he do that by the age of 22? BT is probably the best limited overs batsman Zimbabwe has ever produced on paper.

That's a completely unfair comparison. BT came into a side that barely played overseas and practically no one was playing in Pakistan. Not sure how BT was able to do the things you are comparing of considering he never got the chance.

[TapsC2]

Please can you also show me how many times when BT was 22 and below he managed to score half centuries in places like Australia or Pakistan. Against full strength bowling units too. How many times more than Wes did he do that by the age of 22? BT is probably the best limited overs batsman Zimbabwe has ever produced on paper.

That's a completely unfair comparison. BT came into a side that barely played overseas and practically no one was playing in Pakistan. Not sure how BT was able to do the things you are comparing of considering he never got the chance.

You are actually saying what I'm saying. No way you can tell me we were playing more competitive teams when BT started. We were being bowled out for 34 then after that people were sending C teams. Kriterion said BT played more competitive teams when he started than Wesley. That isn't true.

[TapsC2]

I'm not saying Wes is better than BT. I'm saying history has shown our batsmen take time to adjust to the international game. I'm using our best limited overs batsman to show that.

These are the 2 matches where BT at the same age was up against it and performed. I don't see much of a difference. After 2004 we were barely getting full strength teams touring.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/aus ... -scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pak ... -scorecard

[Googly]

I'm sure Madhevere is on a Central Contract, does that mean Shumba also has one?
I think Madhevere is in Jongwe territory where he became the golden boy and took his foot off the pedal. That's a dangerous space. There's nowhere to go from there but down. He's probably on an average county salary but it's a lot of money for a young single guy with no commitments.

With all this rain and bad weather around the only place to practice regularly is the indoor. The only guys that frequent that place are the overseas lads. That tells a big story.