The world according to Prosper, by Tristan Holme

[Jemisi]

But Waller is as proven as many of your endless lists of domestic players.

Fine, give Mutizwa a go ahead of Coventry, I am with you on that, but not every man and his dog

[Terryalderman]

A couple of things:

Bavuma you want to reward domestic form but if you look at other nations, players who aren't necessary the top performing statistically (in their first class system) don't necessary do well at international level. Whereas players with an X-factor but not necessarily a sound record do get selected and play well because they excel under the pressure of the top competition. Most of us on this forum don't watch zim domestic cricket so can't comment on any players abilities except going on stats. Also domestic pitches and outfields aren't going to always encourage high scoring and make mediocre bowlers standout.
Take Australian selection. Nathan Lyon never dominates shield cricket, however he has done well internationally. Because of a sound temperament and a technique that under the right coaches have allowed him to become the top 'old fashioned' off spinner in the world.
Players like Maruma, Mortizwa have done well domestically but floundered internationally. Looking at the stats from last year their is no batsmen who really stands out except Mutumbodzi and Wadlan a club cricketer from England is the leading wicket taker. Which says a lot! This is why the selectors have to select on potential and temperament. Hence Chari, Jongwe getting selected and why when people like Craig Ervine and Graeme Cremer make themselves available they get selected (Coventry was lucky). Yes you have to reward loyalty but they are the best of an average lot. And prevent the team from getting humiliated every game rather than the occasional complete humiliation the team gets now. You want to create a competitive and ultimately winning environment with the best players. This is top level sport not amateur sport where you reward someone for simply turning up for training every night! As supporters we have to accept that none of the zim team are world beaters but do and try their hardest under at times very trying cirumstances.
On an aside, what is the zim rugby team like? Does it have similar problems?

[bavuma_rabada]

Terryalderman you were very rational in your response and I appreciate that.

I only ask this of you. This is Craig Ervine's last FC season in Zimbabwe - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament, and this is his first FC after re-selection, the tour to Bangladesh - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ype=series. Help me understand how and why he even found himself anywhere near the squad.

To be honest I know little about rugby in Zimbabwe.

[brmtaylor.com admin]

Terryalderman you were very rational in your response and I appreciate that.

I only ask this of you. This is Craig Ervine's last FC season in Zimbabwe - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament, and this is his first FC after re-selection, the tour to Bangladesh - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ype=series. Help me understand how and why he even found himself anywhere near the squad.

To be honest I know little about rugby in Zimbabwe.

That hasn't stopped you posting about cricket

[maehara]

Just wanted to say how refreshing it is to see an intelligent, reasoned debate on the back of the piece. Just last week I was speaking to a fellow freelancer and we were bemoaning the lack of personal and/or stimulating feedback on articles. This forum is often the exception to that rule.

Big-up to y'all!

::bows:: Thank-you sir. We do try. Even when some of us are very trying.

[foreignfield]

A few thoughts on Tristan's article and the responses:

Yes, one almost feels sorry for Prosper, as for anyone struggling to to save his career in the often unforgiving world of professional sports. More so when you know how difficult it is to make ends meet as a Zimbabwean cricketer. It is also nothing new that a lot of people tend to only blame other people for their misfortunes instead of looking at themselves. Where Prosper's case takes on a different proportion is that, true to the political beliefs championed by the ruling class in his country, he blames everything on a white conspiracy against him. The problem with such a belief is that you tend to find reasons, even if they are not really reasonable:

Whites wanted to relieve him of his captaincy -- ask any captain how he feels when the selectors drop him. A white pace bowler "from nowhere" took his place on Zim's Test comeback (not mentioned in the article, but a forumite on the ground posted Pro's grumblings from the stands at the practices matches before the Test) -- as if Prosper would have played as a second spinner instead of Jarvis. A white coach (Gary Brent) dropped him from the Goats' FC team -- and played a black attacking young spinner in Mushangwe who was taking bagfuls of wickets where Pro wasn't. A white figure of evil denied him his place in the sun at the World Cup -- when he shouldn't have been selected in the first place and could count himself lucky to get his hand on a big pay check.

In truth, Utseya's letter is just the most explicit example of how race is forever bubbling under the surface of Zimbabwean cricket. "There is no unity," is Utseya's evaluation of the team. "You've probably noticed this, but when we warm up, we are in groups - or even during lunchtime. I'm not saying that people do it intentionally - it happens naturally."

Similar observations have been made since the early 2000s, and that makes Utseya's next assertion less shocking. "This is why I've told people that for this team to do well, either it has to have 11 white players or 11 black players. Statistically I think they will achieve more."

At their best, Zimbabweans make humorous racial comments in a manner so blatant that it mocks racism and breaks down barriers. At their worst, they view every action or decision through a racial lens. The majority of Zimbabweans tend towards the former, but that is not quite the case in the cricket fraternity, for two reasons.

The first is that cricket teams are rarely as unified beneath the surface as their public exterior might suggest, but rifts are more likely to evaporate when the team is winning and widen when it is losing. Zimbabwe lose a lot more than they win.

The second is money - its scarcity. This is evident in Utseya's view on Graeme Cremer's reselection after two years out of the game, an injustice he bemoans at length in both his letter and our conversation. His feeling is that Cremer benefited because both he and Campbell are white, and Utseya is missing out on game time and match fees as a result.

I think Tristan's analysis here is pretty fair if I'm allowed to venture into this territory as a rank outsider. One simply cannot ignore the fact that race (or culture, or class?) is an issue in Zim (and not only in cricket). It might not define all relations within the team but certainly some. If you look at photos of the guys on tour you get the picture. It might be a case of hanging out with the mates you've grown up with, but in Zim this more often than not means hanging out with guys from your own cultural background. The fact that a lot of white people feel marginalized by the very cricket administration that others claim is run by whites for the benefit of whites does not make it any better. If people on both sides cry "racism" you can be sure that the truth lies somewhere in the middle (according to hhm Cremer has been pampered by ZC, according to googly he has been ill-treated) and, more importantly, those people agree that race is a relevant category to discuss social relations, thereby creating the very racism they denounce.*

And finally: It is totally unnecessary to call Prosper a cheat for his chucking. We all thought his action was just fine and never mentioned him while discussing Querl, Waller or Vitori. His behaviour on the pitch has nothing to do with his off-field actions.

* I'm struggling a bit when it comes to putting rather complex thoughts into English. My apologies if anything remains unclear.

[Conant]

A few thoughts on Tristan's article and the responses:

Yes, one almost feels sorry for Prosper, as for anyone struggling to to save his career in the often unforgiving world of professional sports. More so when you know how difficult it is to make ends meet as a Zimbabwean cricketer. It is also nothing new that a lot of people tend to only blame other people for their misfortunes instead of looking at themselves. Where Prosper's case takes on a different proportion is that, true to the political beliefs championed by the ruling class in his country, he blames everything on a white conspiracy against him. The problem with such a belief is that you tend to find reasons, even if they are not really reasonable:

Whites wanted to relieve him of his captaincy -- ask any captain how he feels when the selectors drop him. A white pace bowler "from nowhere" took his place on Zim's Test comeback (not mentioned in the article, but a forumite on the ground posted Pro's grumblings from the stands at the practices matches before the Test) -- as if Prosper would have played as a second spinner instead of Jarvis. A white coach (Gary Brent) dropped him from the Goats' FC team -- and played a black attacking young spinner in Mushangwe who was taking bagfuls of wickets where Pro wasn't. A white figure of evil denied him his place in the sun at the World Cup -- when he shouldn't have been selected in the first place and could count himself lucky to get his hand on a big pay check.

In truth, Utseya's letter is just the most explicit example of how race is forever bubbling under the surface of Zimbabwean cricket. "There is no unity," is Utseya's evaluation of the team. "You've probably noticed this, but when we warm up, we are in groups - or even during lunchtime. I'm not saying that people do it intentionally - it happens naturally."

Similar observations have been made since the early 2000s, and that makes Utseya's next assertion less shocking. "This is why I've told people that for this team to do well, either it has to have 11 white players or 11 black players. Statistically I think they will achieve more."

At their best, Zimbabweans make humorous racial comments in a manner so blatant that it mocks racism and breaks down barriers. At their worst, they view every action or decision through a racial lens. The majority of Zimbabweans tend towards the former, but that is not quite the case in the cricket fraternity, for two reasons.

The first is that cricket teams are rarely as unified beneath the surface as their public exterior might suggest, but rifts are more likely to evaporate when the team is winning and widen when it is losing. Zimbabwe lose a lot more than they win.

The second is money - its scarcity. This is evident in Utseya's view on Graeme Cremer's reselection after two years out of the game, an injustice he bemoans at length in both his letter and our conversation. His feeling is that Cremer benefited because both he and Campbell are white, and Utseya is missing out on game time and match fees as a result.

I think Tristan's analysis here is pretty fair if I'm allowed to venture into this territory as a rank outsider. One simply cannot ignore the fact that race (or culture, or class?) is an issue in Zim (and not only in cricket). It might not define all relations within the team but certainly some. If you look at photos of the guys on tour you get the picture. It might be a case of hanging out with the mates you've grown up with, but in Zim this more often than not means hanging out with guys from your own cultural background. The fact that a lot of white people feel marginalized by the very cricket administration that others claim is run by whites for the benefit of whites does not make it any better. If people on both sides cry "racism" you can be sure that the truth lies somewhere in the middle (according to hhm Cremer has been pampered by ZC, according to googly he has been ill-treated) and, more importantly, those people agree that race is a relevant category to discuss social relations, thereby creating the very racism they denounce.*

And finally: It is totally unnecessary to call Prosper a cheat for his chucking. We all thought his action was just fine and never mentioned him while discussing Querl, Waller or Vitori. His behaviour on the pitch has nothing to do with his off-field actions.

* I'm struggling a bit when it comes to putting rather complex thoughts into English. My apologies if anything remains unclear.

You couldn't have out it better, beating fellow forumers who use English as their first language only to advance sarcasm and crass responses that do nothing to build on sound arguments.

I for one have always found your contributions fair, balanced and stimulating, foreignfield; you will kindly excuse me dragging your post into this more dubious field of prejudice.

But thanks Tristan and Liam Brickhill for your passion for ZimCricket (although at times I find Tristan unnecessarily and almost invariably negative though holding a thorough knowledge on the sport).

Thanks as well to all other forumers, Maehara, BRM, Crimson, the never you know his motive HHM, eugene, and yes, even zimdoggy .

This site is a blast I hope the cricket continues though sometimes I fear we are destined for
the Kenya route .Thanks everyone

[Googly]

The racial issues are insurmountable in my opinion. No-one will ever really know about the joint machinations and conniving 'conducted by Pro and GM. It would be safe to say that it has been hugely significant and damaging. It is a tragic fact that whenever a beleaguered black Zimbo is in a jam he just has to cry foul and the brothers close ranks regardless of the circumstances or the facts and the ugliness continues. This has so come home to roost and the racism experienced by us guys is so in excess to what the generation before us dished out and we're now watching with grim fascination as we can no longer be blamed as there are so few of us and the implosion in every facet of society has snowballed to cataclysmic proportions. We have become a gigantic informal sector and a retail outlet to South African Corporations, we are ruled over by an immensely corrupt elite that have slain the Golden Goose. The most recent accusation has been that of sabotaging the planting season by setting fire to the countryside and we will shortly be blamed for the power outages and lack of rainfall. It's surely time for us to all take a step back and watch the "indigenous" Zimbos get on with it? Whilst there is still just one tired hamstrung white somewhere in the system there will always be an excuse or a lie.

[bavuma_rabada]

This has so come home to roost and the racism experienced by us guys is so in excess to what the generation before us dished out

It's surely time for us to all take a step back and watch the "indigenous" Zimbos get on with it? Whilst there is still just one tired hamstrung white somewhere in the system there will always be an excuse or a lie.

That's been the case for 35 years mate. Where have you been? So why does AC keep going back then? Takes pleasure in the pain?

[bavuma_rabada]

You couldn't have out it better, beating fellow forumers who use English as their first language only to advance sarcasm and crass responses that do nothing to build on sound arguments.

Yup, three cheers for foreignfield.

But thanks Tristan and Liam Brickhill for your passion for ZimCricket (although at times I find Tristan unnecessarily and almost invariably negative though holding a thorough knowledge on the sport). I hope the cricket continues though sometimes I fear we are destined for the Kenya route.

According to Liam and Tristan's prophecies, cricket in Zimbabwe died years ago. . I wonder what goes through their minds when they read some of their old articles.